Page 4 | To be sick of seeing "cool girl" or "cool wife" used as an insult

Original poster

11GrumpsaGrumping · 15/08/2022 12:21

Catriona898 · 15/08/2022 11:22

Well it's not like mumsnet generally support women who make different choices is it? There aren't many long threads that I have read recently that haven't turned into a bun fight when it comes to attitudes about sexual fidelity. Should you be able to go onto a website and say "I would be fine with my partner going to a stripper", absolutely. But it's a forum and people can and do disagree. The "cool wives" thing is annoying I agree, but not any more annoying than the many and varied insults that people use to describe women. The people saying "I wouldn't be fine with my husband going to a stripper" aren't getting unilateral support either. Getting angry about hearing about the "cool girl brigade" , while not mentioning the other, many and varied misogynistic terms to describe women is unreasonable. It seems you are only concerned with a comment that affects your lifestyle. That's not really supporting women as a whole is it?

That is a really good point actually. I have been guilty of referring to pearl clutching etc, which is I suppose just as ignorant as people insulting cool girls.

You're very right.

OP posts:

SunnyD44 · 15/08/2022 12:22

YANBU but it’s often used by certain types of women who I pity.

If saying it makes their miserable lives better for one second then let them
crack on and don’t take it personally.

waterlego · 15/08/2022 12:24

@SunnyD44 Why do you think that women who have certain boundaries have ‘miserable lives’?

Divebar2021 · 15/08/2022 12:24

It's used as an insult by people who can't either cope or fathom other people having different reactions to a situation than them. Go straight to the insult and high five yourself for being so right and so on point

Amen.

waterlego · 15/08/2022 12:25

Fluffymule · 15/08/2022 12:19

I’ve been following the ‘Porn culture has led to women suffering injuries during sex’ thread over the weekend. The conversation had a number of running themes and points, but a key one was about young women experiencing a dating scene where acts, such as anal sex, are now considered ‘normal’, that many men now expect anal as commonly as PIV and some don’t seek consent or even broker a conversation around boundaries.

This immediately attracted a cohort of posters who came on to say how much they enjoyed anal sex and how others shouldn’t judge.

Fair enough, their opinion (although I’d ague the discussion wasn’t judging women who enjoy anal, they were judging the men who demand it or push consent boundaries to get it).

It was not enough just to make a point, these posters continued to tilt at windmills insisting they were being ‘judged’, whilst feeling it necessary to prove they were nothing like the uptight judgers on the thread, by describing how and why they like it so much. Repeatedly.

So, inevitably other posters became irritated and the discussion started to narrow into an argument around ‘prudes’ and ‘cool girls’ rather than the important issue of women being assaulted and injured under the label of sexual activity, motivated by porn. Which is never ‘cool’ and even less ‘cool’ to activity minimise.

Good post.

Original poster

11GrumpsaGrumping · 15/08/2022 12:26

For those who think I am referring specifically to the lap dance thread, I'm not.

I am actually not comfortable with my partner having a lap dance, a) because I'd be jealous and b) because it just crosses a line of what I'd feel is okay. Oddly I wouldn't mind if someone went to a strip club though!

I just think the insults when people don't have the same opinion are so horrible. A PP made a good point though about calling people Pearl Clutchers, etc, is just as damaging a trope, which I take on board.

OP posts:

Topgub · 15/08/2022 12:26

@SleeplessInEngland

During your mother's time?!

ReneBumsWombats · 15/08/2022 12:26

The terms "cool girl" or "cool wife" are slung at them, with the implication made (sometimes directly) that said "cool" person doesn't really do/feel/enjoy the way the say they do, and are just trying to be cool.

Yes, that's exactly what the implication is supposed to be. It's from Gone Girl.

I don't think name calling is a great way to debate but yes, this is what they're saying. Although it's not about trying to be cool as much as trying to pander to men.

DeclineandFall · 15/08/2022 12:26

This thread is interesting. It could be about whether using insults like cool girl add to a conversation or whether as an insult they just derail it.
Instead it's just veered off into another slag fest. Plus ca change.

Original poster

11GrumpsaGrumping · 15/08/2022 12:26

NellyNothing · 15/08/2022 11:30

YABU and yanbu - the phrase is unkind and only twats would call someone that. However there is nothing wrong with kindly pointing out that you shouldn't pander to someone.

You can disagree with other posters without being nasty. It's not difficult.

Completely agree!!!

OP posts:

AdamRyan · 15/08/2022 12:27

Fluffymule · 15/08/2022 12:19

I’ve been following the ‘Porn culture has led to women suffering injuries during sex’ thread over the weekend. The conversation had a number of running themes and points, but a key one was about young women experiencing a dating scene where acts, such as anal sex, are now considered ‘normal’, that many men now expect anal as commonly as PIV and some don’t seek consent or even broker a conversation around boundaries.

This immediately attracted a cohort of posters who came on to say how much they enjoyed anal sex and how others shouldn’t judge.

Fair enough, their opinion (although I’d ague the discussion wasn’t judging women who enjoy anal, they were judging the men who demand it or push consent boundaries to get it).

It was not enough just to make a point, these posters continued to tilt at windmills insisting they were being ‘judged’, whilst feeling it necessary to prove they were nothing like the uptight judgers on the thread, by describing how and why they like it so much. Repeatedly.

So, inevitably other posters became irritated and the discussion started to narrow into an argument around ‘prudes’ and ‘cool girls’ rather than the important issue of women being assaulted and injured under the label of sexual activity, motivated by porn. Which is never ‘cool’ and even less ‘cool’ to activity minimise.

Thank you - just came on to post that kind of thing

I'm kinda meh about it. "Cool girl" is not a term I'd use. However on many of these threads it also seems fine to call people "vanilla"; "pearl clutchers"; "prudish" or allege they are stupid or have poor comprehension skills.

I think those kind of responses are just as bad.

Play the ball, not the man

Fairislefandango · 15/08/2022 12:27

It's pretty baffling when people accuse MN en masse of having a particular attitude or of being really for or against something. Firstly MNers are all individuals. Secondly any remotely controversial view on here generally has a large camp vehemently agreeing and a large camp vehemently disagreeing.

I don't really believe in unilaterally supporting any view just because it's been expressed by a woman (or by a member of any other group that one happens to belong to). Any view should be judged on its individual merits.

Brefugee · 15/08/2022 12:28

I'll use pearl-clutcher when someone is being ridiculous (eg about someone using a towel for a week) because that seems to be a regular amount of time for people to use towels for? (not that I've done a poll)

As i said i don't use Cool Girl often, but when i do I'm aiming it straight between the eyes of someone who will come in and tell someone that their boundaries are far too tight and they should relax and let someone do what they like with/to them because they'er ok with that and everyone who isn't is a prude.

We spend so long supporting women to make different choices to us (but valid choices to them so why not support it?) but also warning them to be sure and secure in themselves and their boundary setting. And i see the results of years of this in a lot of the young women i know now and it makes me really happy, and pleased that we worked so hard at it. So in that respect, of course, i also support the Cool Girls in their own decisions (insofar as they have made them independently, as pp said we don't grow up in a vacuum) right up to the point they try to persuade women with healthy (personal) boundaries that they are wrong.

Original poster

11GrumpsaGrumping · 15/08/2022 12:29

Brefugee · 15/08/2022 11:34

It's from Gone Girl, isn't it? A big rant about the effort and work that some women put in so that they can appear 'cool' to men. That it's mostly an illusion

god no - it has been around since i was a teenager back in the Middle-ages (or the 1980s as i like to call it)

The point is that women are not an autonomous glob they are individuals with individual lives, wishes and boundaries. Thanks to (mostly 2nd wave at this point) feminism this is not a controversial opinion. And yet there are plenty of women/girls who are completely prepared/willing to throw any other woman under the bus if they are of a different opinion, or who seem to be encroaching on "their territory".

Some of the Cool Girls/Wives are being abused. They put up with, say, painful rough sex because it is more important for them to keep the man interested than look out for their own safety. Often it's just about "territory" or even unrequited "love". Who knows? but it is a well researched phenomenon.

Other social phenomena are available.

I agree that some women are being abused- and it certainly isn't going to help build their self esteem and sense of empowerment by name calling.

Equally I think it's important to understand that what can be abusive to one might not be to another- for example rough sex, some women genuinely enjoy it (in safe, consensual circumstances) because it gives them pleasure and not because they are trying to please someone else. It's the lack of ability of some posters to understand there is a difference which I struggle with.

OP posts:

Original poster

11GrumpsaGrumping · 15/08/2022 12:30

BronwenFrideswide · 15/08/2022 11:36

Everyone has different boundaries, experiences, cultural influences, relationships, ages, backgrounds, etc- why is it not okay for one person to find for example strippers okay within their marriage and others not to, without the former being accused of being part of the "cool wives brigade".

Is it really that hard for people to understand and accept that we all have different boundaries and lines in the sand?

It seems very hard for the ones who find strippers okay within their marriage to refrain from telling those who don't that they are not cool, not enlightened, prudish, etc So who is failing to accept different boundaries and lines in the sand here? Why do they need to come on thread where an OP clearly doesn't accept strippers are okay within her marriage and lecture the OP as how she should change her boundaries and accept it?

From what I have seen on here the ones who are cool with porn and strippers are the ones who are the most sneery and judgemental of those who are not and think everyone should adhere to their standards.

I haven't noticed that.

I did read the stripper thread and, aside from a few outliers, the consensus seemed to be that only the op could decide what she was comfortable with, and that her reaction/response would have to depend on that as well as previous boundaries established in her own relationship.

OP posts:

Pinkspice · 15/08/2022 12:34

Brefugee · 15/08/2022 11:23

But if the term is used and you aren't one of those who really do just excuse everything men do because you want men to like you - then nobody is talking to you and you can ignore it, surely?

It is an observed phenomenon, and a lot of the time older women have said "shit, i used to be an '"I'M not like other girls' because i wanted the guys to like me, and it was stupid and shitting on other women."
I wasn't going to read the lapdance thread, but i think i will now.

Nailed it.

SunnyD44 · 15/08/2022 12:34

Why do you think that women who have certain boundaries have ‘miserable lives’?

I would hope every women had boundaries but those boundaries vary between individuals.

Calling someone a ‘cool wife’ and insulting them because they have a slightly different boundary to them is a very insecure thing to do.

If they’re so insecure in their relationship that they feel threatened by anyone who has a different boundary to them then they obviously lead a very miserable life and aren’t happy in their relationship.

I was called a ‘cool wife’ because I said I wouldn’t allow a tracker on my phone nor would I put one on my partner - the person who said that obviously isn’t in a trusting relationship and is threatened by those that are.

There was a thread yesterday about a situation,
I, like many others, posted that it would be ok for us but if that’s her boundary then he was wrong to cross it.
Some people couldn’t cope with that snd it made them insecure, so they throw out the cool wives thing instead of just saying I wouldn’t be happy with that in my relationship.

gnilliwdog · 15/08/2022 12:35

11GrumpsaGrumping · 15/08/2022 12:29

I agree that some women are being abused- and it certainly isn't going to help build their self esteem and sense of empowerment by name calling.

Equally I think it's important to understand that what can be abusive to one might not be to another- for example rough sex, some women genuinely enjoy it (in safe, consensual circumstances) because it gives them pleasure and not because they are trying to please someone else. It's the lack of ability of some posters to understand there is a difference which I struggle with.

Show quote history

Yeah, I am now coming to the conclusion that women who 'enjoy rough sex' should get therapy rather than condition a man to expect the same from other women. Maybe they need to explore why they like to be hurt, it seems likely to originate from trauma.

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 15/08/2022 12:36

It really makes me angry and I find it just another way in which woman choose to tear other women down, when what we need to do is support one another

I didn't use the expression you're objecting to but in no way am I going to support any woman who is trying to justify the "sex industry" or minimise the harm it causes to all women, so bore off with your call to be sisterly.

Maireas · 15/08/2022 12:36

I think it usually emerges in these threads (which are legion) about a husband who gets a lap dance. The woman gets upset, feels betrayed, but others claim it's not sleazy, it's harmless and artistic, the women aren't exploited or whatever. It always fascinates me that the sex industry is seen through this prism by so many on here. I think that being fine with the sex industry is often labelled "cool".

Gymnopedie · 15/08/2022 12:39

Like a more helpful response, which I have also seen on here (with the cool girl insult), is "I am okay with porn in my relationship, but that might not be for you. What are your boundaries, etc" to help the op work through where they are at.

I don't agree with 'cool girl' in that response. But what you get quite often isn't so nuanced. Sometimes responses can very much be that I'm OK with it, so you're wrong/uptight/a pearl clutcher to be not OK with it. I see 'cool girl' being used more often in this case.

sunglassesonthetable · 15/08/2022 12:41

Cool Girl
Hand Maiden
Pearl Clutching
Vanilla
and all the the others I probably don't know

It all smacks of being a bit key board warrior to me as in "I've been here a long time and I'm going to insult you with an in the club name"

Straight away it gives an impression of the poster.

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 15/08/2022 12:43

From what I have seen on here the ones who are cool with porn and strippers are the ones who are the most sneery and judgemental of those who are not and think everyone should adhere to their standards

The other thread was accusing posters who aren't cool with the sex "industry" of being sad, lonely, jealous, insecure etc.

Brefugee · 15/08/2022 12:44

It's the lack of ability of some posters to understand there is a difference which I struggle with.

Agree with this. It isn't peculiar to MN but the internet is very keen on B/W scenarious and has no space for any other grey colour on the spectrum. the binary options of YABU / YANBU don't help (but they are fun)

And if we go with the example of rough sex, it can very quickly descend into kink shaming and, i guess the opposite would be vanilla-shaming, and no room for any kind of sensible discussion.

I'm really enjoying this thread because there is very little actual mud-slinging and a lot of discussion of the phenomenon and the reasons to identify it in threads.

waterlego · 15/08/2022 12:44

Agree @Gymnopedie.

If a person posts like the example you quoted, I’d be surprised to see them labelled as a ‘cool girl’, as they appear to have written a fair and measured post.

But I can understand a poster being labelled a ‘cool girl’ if they’ve come bowling into a thread accusing others of being uptight/jealous/miserable/controlling, or telling them they need to relax. Or ridiculous assertions like the one we saw upthread where a poster reckoned that women with certain boundaries start screaming or shrieking if their partner gets within 3 foot of another woman or whatever it was.