To say this to people who complain about vaping?

[GeriSignfeld]

You do realise that if we weren't vaping, we'd be smoking cigarettes, right?

In light of this, why should vapes be banned?

#teamvape

The articles posted by cancer research etc are all about how vaping is healthier than smoking. It is. However I still maintain it is not a good thing that large numbers of children are addicted to vaping when they would never have considered smoking.

The same data source and lots of studies in the UK say the same thing. Vaping is not correlated with smoking in kids. Smoking, like alcohol, is diminishing year on year. They have other substances of choice.

I'd show them this and reiterate that they are not doing themselves any favours

The cookery channel woman? I don't care what her opinions are, I'll take cancer research over whatever it is she says!

Something that many people seem to be missing is that it's not just the nicotine in cigarettes that's addictive, it's the act of smoking. That "hand to mouth" habit can for many people be the hardest to break, which is why other NRT like nicotine patches and gum are nowhere near as effective for smokers trying to quit.

I quit smoking and don't feel the need to vape.

Addictions can be overcome

There is no evidence that sugar is physically addictive - cravings can be adequately satisfied by alternative artificial sweeteners. As for coffee and caffeine - far fewer people drink dozens of cups of coffee a day than endlessly smoke vapes, although very high doses of caffeine are indeed recognised to be harmful to health and caffeine is thought to be mildly physically addictive, so a much better comparison than sugar. It generally takes a few days to get over caffeine withdrawal if you have developed a habit, though, whereas many people (not just ex-smokers, now the appeal has widened) seem to be incapable of giving up vaping - maybe something to do with the whole having something to suck on and do with your hands, etc, so a far stronger physical and emotional addiction than coffee for the majority of people. Also, we have centuries of data on ingestion of coffee - far less data on the inhalation of glycerol, etc. Deliberate inhalation of anything other than fresh air doesn’t really spring to mind as the greatest of ideas, unless trying to get over a worse problem.

Oh yes! I still 'prescribe' Argos type pens to people on NRT. Saves them eating something sugary every time they want a cigarette.

I think that’s exactly the point JS87 was making - ie so what if vaping doesn’t lead to smoking if it still leads to nicotine addiction and an expensive habit? Why just study the link with smoking? Why did some people move on to vaping under the counter products with THC in? Did they think this was safer than smoking a spliff, due to the way vaping is marketed? It’s quite easy to cynically combine the chance of getting a bit of a high with the promise it won’t harm your health, if you don’t mention the addiction part. So - advertising something that is a fantastic idea as a smoking cessation product in ways that appeal to teenagers and non-smokers and which heavily push how wonderfully safe it is, is really a great inducement for our adolescents to do a big, free uncontrolled experiment for us all on how good an idea it is to become addicted to vaping nicotine.

Why did some people move on to vaping under the counter products with THC in?

Because it allowed people to use weed in a totally tobacco (and nic) free method. That seems fairly obvious no?

Well, you got banned from smoking too in public spaces. HAHA. Put that in your vape and smoke it.

No one wants to breathe your second-hand, sickly sweet vape fumes.

It's not letting to how vaping is marketed, it's because many people have given up tobacco and nicotine and they want to be able to use THC without adding either of those 2 things back into their lives. Add the convenience, relative lack of smell, portability etc and all of those are reasons above the perceived health effects for many. Most people I know who use those carts do it to supplement more traditional weed use rather than replace it

The key thing Vapes have over other forms of NRT is throat hit.

Also plenty of studies suggest that nic in isolation is a pretty poor addictor. That's why they had to crackify it with the nic salts formulation.

Nicotine outside of tobacco was a largely unexplored topic, and it transpires that it's something else present in tobacco that makes the nicotine component far more effective. Which is why gums and sprays, patches etc have such a poor success rate. Vaping by adding the mechanical familiarity part, turns out to be a more appealing substitute

This. See the American links upthread for examples. Modified kits for smoking weed is what is causing lung issues.

I don't think it's a 'move on' issue as much as finding a way to make your THCs go further (unfortunately that happens quite literally)

I'm guessing mumsnetters won't be thrilled that in certain hospitals the NHS actually prescribe vapes? I mean they are crap and only come in 2 flavours (mint and tobacco) but they still do it 🤣

I couldn't possibly comment. Not being peripherally involved with a similar scheme and longitudinal research into success rates and health indices 😉

Modified kits for smoking weed is what is causing lung issues.

"Vaping" THC is a pretty complex subject with regards where vaping ends and combustion starts, people calling pure material, horrible black market carts containing vegetable oils or synthetic cannabinoids.

At the high end of the market (arf) it's probably the safest way to be doing it from a lung health perspective, at the bottom end of the market it's probably one of the most risky

The cookery channel woman? I don't care what her opinions are, I'll take cancer research over whatever it is she says!

Your look out. She is very good and has done good research on many harmful things.

Yes but there are lots of parents who aren’t very happy about their teenagers vaping. They wouldn’t have had to worry about them smoking as they wouldn’t have smoked. I’m not concerned about vaping leading to smoking but I don’t think it’s a good thing for teenagers to do.

I was referring specifically to that lower end. As per the American data.

I am particularly anti THCs for personal reasons. SIL and now nephew having fucked their lives up with the bloody stuff. So I shall acknowledge my bias right here.

Vaping is clearly better than smoking but putting nothing extra in your lungs is even better, any fucking idiot understands that.

Understanding why people engage in low level self harm will ultimately be more beneficial than lowering their options for doing it.

Yes this!

Still no reason to pass over the source of her data to hear her smile about it. And I have no idea if she is for or against vaping. That's pretty irrelevant to me.

I don’t think most people have an issue with vapes being used instead of smoking , particularly as a tool to quit smoking. It’s the uptake of vaping by people who have never smoked that people are upset by, particularly teenagers and the fact that it is seen as cool.