To feel disturbed that DD (4) received this through the door?

[Greenginghamdress]

I got home tonight to find my partner with something to show me. He said " I didn't want to tell you this at work but two little girls put this through the letterbox for DD". (She is 4). It is a nice looking card with DDs name on, but with a nasty note inside, signed from a name of a little girl who lives round the corner.

We have a google doorbell and can see two girls dropped it through this afternoon. The 2 girls are from our estate, aged 8 and 4. The girls are good friends with each other but lately the younger one has been playing with DD. She even came to our house last week to play briefly! When they were playing I heard little girl say 'so you known DDs name I don't want to be friends anymore' . DD didn't seem bothered and later on they seemed fine.

The handwriting is good, I don't think the 4 year old has done this.

We haven't told or shown DD on anyone else.

What to do about it? I do not know the mums well. It seems very nasty and can't believe this sort if thing happens so young now!
Tell me if I over reacting. What would you do?

When I was 3 or 4, the girl next door - who must have been maybe 8-ish? - used to play with me, and this brings back some very unwelcome memories of being the victim of her twisted little power-games. One particular stand-out is being encouraged by her to throw snowballs at cars, but what I was completely unaware of as a toddler was that she’d put stones in the snowballs she handed to me.

I never really got over those childhood experiences as the object of her control and bullying, and on a very deep level I've always been affected by it. OP, I really would take this seriously.

When my son was 6 a boy from his class moved away. I was surprised when another mum, who was friends with his mum, stopped me one day and told me her and her kids had been to stay with them that weekend and she had a letter from the boy for my son. I, thankfully, decided to open it before giving it to him. It was a drawing of a very fat figure and a thin figure and over the fat one it said "Fatty ds name" and over the thin one it said the other boys name. I never showed it to my son and I never said anything as the boy had moved away but I wish now I'd at least passed a message back through the mum who gave me the letter to the boys mother telling her what he'd done. My son had only just come to live with us (adopted) and was desperately trying to fit in at a school where all the kids had known each other since they were babies and this would have really set him back. Kids can be so cruel.

Whatever you do, do not approach an 8-year-old child on their own away from others. You are leaving yourself open to all kinds of accusations this way.

I would also not just leave this lie. You have the 4yo mothers number, take a picture of the card with the name visible, take a screenshot or video recording of them posting said letter and send it on through Whatsapp. Say you know kids are kids, but this is sinister and the mum might want to distance her child from the 8yo too if this is what is going on. I would ask if she has the other mums phone number so you can do the same.

I would show the four year olds parents, because its possible that the 8 year old is manipulating the 4 year old into doing things she otherwise wouldn't do and if 8 year old is looking for a reaction, she may go further to get one.

If this was YOUR four year old being manipulated by an older child, you'd want to know, surely?

The 8 year old, dunno I might leave that to the 4 year olds parents to deal with or not, up to them, but if you do catch her on your doorstep again or speaking to your child, then have a word perhaps. I would not have a word alone though, this is already an imaginative, creative and potentially manipulative child!

I'd say the 8 year old is worried about losing the 4 year old to play with as she may prefer playing with your dd who is more her age. Probably learnt manipulative behaviour from parents. I feel sorry for her but it needs stopping. I'd say the 4 year olds parents need telling so they can stop them hanging out asap.

To be honest our little one has been playing out of late, and we've put a stop to it because we don't want to be in the pockets of everyone on our road, this is the type of thing that will cause trouble. We've shut it down. She's going to school soon and will make friends, and some will be local, but we've decided to police closely who she becomes friends with. She already had issues with local kids, it's a minefield. We're talking about moving to a nicer area.

I grew up on a council estate and am working class through and through and always had a salt of the earth attitude, but it's all changed and I can see that area often denotes type of person and we want out. We don't want to risk our child becoming involved with children like the ones I grew up around who threatened adults with baseball bats.

She doesn't need to know local kids, if they're like that.

I wouldn't speak to the 8 year old - Mother might go bat shit at you when the little girl goes home an says you've had a go at her, at the very least you'll have a defensive and angry parents asking why you accused her daughter of being mean and she is unlikely to listen openly to your reasons. Talk to both sets of parents.

Just show them the note, and the photo. I'd say 'you should be aware that this has happened'. And I'd leave it there.

Sounds like you’re taking a good approach, OP. I would caution against talking directly to the 8 year old, though, especially if you don’t know her well - it’d be much better to go through her parents. 8 years old probably seems very mature and grown up to you as the parent of a 4 year old, but while 8 is of course more mature than 4, it’s still very young. Her parents could well be pretty cross if you speak to her without speaking to them first and then you’d lose the moral high ground, as it were, and muddy the conversation. It’d be a bit different if you knew her well, perhaps, but that’s not the case I think.

Did you say you live on a 'tough' estate? Or a 'nice' estate? I'm getting confused.

Regardless. It could affect how the parents would take it , that's all I'm saying.

Keep your child well away. There's no reason at all why your 4 yr old even has to see these children if they just roam on the estate!

If it were me, I'd lay into the child directly - How dare you put this through my door. Put the fear of god into her so she doesn't do it again.

I would want to know if it were my child, but not all parents are like that. You could set off WW3.

I would start with the 4 year old's mum because you know her AND because this is likely at the coercion/control of the 8 year old and the 4 year old trying to please her. Tell her her daughter came to the door with the 8 year old, said unkind things to your daughter, which is recorded, and put the nasty note through your door. To your FOUR year old. I imagine she'd have been upset/horrified if it was HER 4 year old that received such a note from the 8 year old and your 4 year old.

Then go to the mum of the 8 year old, possibly with the support of the mum of the other 4 year old, to ask her to stay away from your daughter. Tell her why. Hopefully the other mum of her 4 year old will be on board that this is not a good playmate for younger children.

I'd advise against speaking to the children directly. An 8 year old on my green was bullying my two girls and playing knock door run to wind them up. I opened the door the second she next knocked and said "If I catch you playing knock door run at my house again, I'll go and tell your mum what you are up to." Cue her mum knocking on my door five minutes later, threatening to punch me for telling off her child. Far better to speak to the parents directly, but be prepared in case they're aggressive morons. It's quite possible that the daughter is picking up her hostile behaviour from her parents.

Fuck it. Stereotypes are based on experience. A boy from the floor down said to me he wanted to beat me up one time, I was 7, and his mum came out the door, you know what she did? She folded her arms and went 'go on then' she was going to watch!

Not sure why I didn't stop my romanticising of council estates there and then but it takes me a while sometimes. I'm 40, and like where I live, but some parents don't seem to care where there kids are all day.

Sorry it's not normal.

Why the fuck is a 4 year old walking the streets without an adult/older sibling?! Anyways looks like the 8 year old is jealous and trying to get her away from dd...the 4 year old could have written that but obviously was told to.....I'd be taking that straight to both parents as it's disgusting and if that was my child who'd done that they'd be getting a serious bollocking as it's bullying.

Oh, and like others, unless you really know the girls/families well, I wouldn't talk to the 2 girls who came to your door about it. You don't know what you'll get from the parents there. I had something similar once, two roughly 10/11 year old boys came to my front door and behaved poorly, but I knew the boys, and told them off, asked them to stay away from my property, and told them I'd be talking to their parents, which I did. One's parents marched him over to apologise; the other's parent blamed me and made up some imaginary conversation his child claimed had happened in the past and defended him.

Sounds like a council estate from the 80's! We all used to just roam no way now though...I'm trying to understand what parent lets a 4 year old roam the streets!

Yeah, this feels like it was instigated by the 8 year old who thought it would be funny to make her little sis be horrid to a peer - parents need telling so they can have a word.

As the four year olds mother i would want to know. As what else is the eight year old girl teaching her. Far too much of a age gap. At total different stages.
Also as the eight years old girls mother I would want to know. She is still only eight and a discussion could be had around bullying and right from wrong. Kids learn from parents guidance. If her parents don't know. How can they tell her.

It's still like that where I am. Not a council estate but a social housing area in a "bad" area (it's actually fine but with the small child it's becoming not fine)

Kids play in the road and walk around alone from around age 5. Saw a boy going the corner shop on his own, crossing main roads, he was no older than 6.

We're looking at houses in a better area.

I just can't fathom why you haven't been to see the parents at the first opportunity

Because they will tell you to F off.

Go round and knock on the 8 year old's door with card in hand, also go to the 4 year old's but I think the older one is the ring leader. That looks like a leftover easter card and I bet she's got it from home.

If one of my children had sent that I would be apoplectic and I would be really annoyed you hadn't told me. Please go round, that's not on at all. Also, please don't tell your DD that will crush the poor little thing.

Next time the four year old wants to come round I would remind both your daughter and her about being kind.

What normal person would tell a concerned parent to f off? I certainly wouldn't... OP doesn't know the girl's mother she may be extremely reasonable and concerned at what her child is doing.

You go and talk to the 8 year old's parents.

That is where the issue lies. I would let the 4 year old's parents know too.

Don't whatsapp or text. Speak to them in person. Otherwise you will end up with misunderstandings.

Don't approach the 8 year old yourself. Not a good idea

This post is a big part of what I see wrong with the world. Firstly why on earth would you think you were over reacting, why would you need advice on what to do either - surely it's obvious you go and see both kids parents, particularly the 4 year olds as it would sound to me she may be vulnerable due to the 8 year olds actions so far and thirdly you have a busy couple of days coming up so you aren't going to deal with it just now? I can bet in a few days you will be saying ah it's too late now and so they get away with it. It is horrible you have been put in this situation but for goodness sake do something now before they think they've got away with it and perhaps do something worse!

I agree with those that said this isn't an 8yo's handwriting. It's too clear and some of the letters like 'f' are not usual for a child of that age.

I think a grown-up wrote it.

I am not in a position to speculate as to who and why but the OP certainly needs to pay a visit to the parents (taking a friend with her). I would also tell the school, as this may have happened before.