To feel disturbed that DD (4) received this through the door?

[Greenginghamdress]

I got home tonight to find my partner with something to show me. He said " I didn't want to tell you this at work but two little girls put this through the letterbox for DD". (She is 4). It is a nice looking card with DDs name on, but with a nasty note inside, signed from a name of a little girl who lives round the corner.

We have a google doorbell and can see two girls dropped it through this afternoon. The 2 girls are from our estate, aged 8 and 4. The girls are good friends with each other but lately the younger one has been playing with DD. She even came to our house last week to play briefly! When they were playing I heard little girl say 'so you known DDs name I don't want to be friends anymore' . DD didn't seem bothered and later on they seemed fine.

The handwriting is good, I don't think the 4 year old has done this.

We haven't told or shown DD on anyone else.

What to do about it? I do not know the mums well. It seems very nasty and can't believe this sort if thing happens so young now!
Tell me if I over reacting. What would you do?

I'd go round definitely to both their homes. I'd want to know if one of mine did something so horrid

Tbf we can all think back to being kids and knowing kids at like 6, 7, 8 who were obviously little psychopaths. All of us knew it, but the adults would spout shit like 'oh they're only kids, they don't know any different'. And we'd think 'what a load of shit, we aren't stupid, we know the difference between right and wrong. So why do some kids get in trouble for the least little thing and yet these evil -yes, evil- little gits, get away with everything'.

Disorders like that and npd form in early childhood even though they can't be officially diagnosed into adulthood. We all knew as kids, who the wronguns were. We unfortunately, are taught from a young age that we should let bad behaviour slide in people who are probably the worst offenders. As if they should get some sort of leway.

If it was a spur of the moment 'i hate you!' said in anger, fine, these things happen. No one is perfect and immune to knee jerk reactions, let alone as a child. But this kid took the time to get, plan out and write a letter, rope another kid into it and post it, completely free from fear of reprisal. 100% a wee psycho. And I bet she gets away with shit like that all the time unfortunately.

Who paid for the card? Was it brand new or did it have previous writing on it or at the back?

Definitely written by the 8 year old and I would definitely tell the parents of both children.

Pinkbonbon - Don't be so dramatic.

My main thought is what are an 8 and 4 year old doing running around on their own being able to put horrible notes through people's doors.

I can only imagine the type of an parents they have.

I would certainly raise it with them by it I doubt it will go well.

Very likely they've been doing it to other local kids. I'd ask around other mums , has your child received any odd notes through the door?

If my child was involved in that I'd want to know, so I'd photocopy it to show both mums asking the writer to be identified from her handwriting. The photocopy subtly lets them know, you're keeping track in case there's any repetition. Mum of 4 yr old needs to know what her child's been put up to by the older one.

The 8 yr old is in school and if this is her nasty little enterprise ( bully using a younger child as go-between to upset other small children), school would want to know.

If the 8 year old wrote that, I would be concerned about her behaviour towards others. The fact that it would have had to have been planned is worrying.

I live on a large newbuild estate and I am constantly astonished at the ages of the kids who are allowed to
roam free. So the free range four old does not surprise me in the slightest.

mine is a busy estate. There is quite a lot of traffic and construction work going on. Mine are 7 and 5 and I am so, so far away from letting them roam around unsupervised. But it’s so commonplace around here that it makes me doubt myself sometimes!

Yeah you need to raise it, pronto.

Not emotionally, just keep to the facts. I'd take a picture of the card, and a picture from the door camera. I'd keep the card. 4 yr old def being manipulated by the 8 year old. Saying 'I hate you' is pretty common kid behaviour, writing a card? Nope, that's a whole different level.

Definitely confront the parents. Whoever wrote this note (I guess the 8 year old - no 4 year old has such good writing), needs to sit and squirm in her seat and have some privileges removed. What a nasty piece of work. So glad your child didn't get to read it.

I wouldn't want my 4yo hanging out in the streets with a child twice their age! Even more so considering this note...
Speaking as a primary school teacher, looking at the handwriting... That's either a very able 4 year old, or a low ability 8 year old. You'll be able to judge that better. And the parents would definitely know if it was something their child had written or not.

Either way, yes, I'd definitely be speaking to both sets of parents.

Normally, I'm very "I've seen it all, and kids generally sort it out between themselves", but I think this needs nipping in the bud. Your child should have no more contact with these two children, and the parents of the other 4yo need to take steps to safeguard their child.

Just to add... I've known a LOT of 4yos in my time. This just isn't the sort of stunt they'd pull. They might say, "I hate you" to your face, but they wouldn't write it down and deliver it through the door. That's just not the way 4yo brains work.
Regardless of the name on it, OR who wrote it, this was absolutely the 8yos plan.

It's bullying. Any bullying needs to be dealt with immediately.
Is the older girl jealous of the younger girl having another friend?

I think it definitely needs nipping in the bud and there's been some good ideas about how to approach with the parents.

I really think the level of preparation put into doing this is disturbing and shouldn't be downplayed just because they are children.

Tbh the handwriting looks like someone older writes it, my dd is almost 8 and no way she or her peers have such a handwriting.

You need to bring it up with the parents immediately, they are raising a mini sociopath. That's not normal behaviour for a 8 year old

I'm sorry that this happened to your child - it breaks my heart that he didn't even tel you. Give him a tight hug!

Reach out to the parents? @Trivester . At 8 they need more than guidance if they think this is acceptable
Good God what are we creating if we deal with it in a gentle way
Some children need telling straight, let's hope the parents agree

I found out many years later the little girl that lived two doors up the road from ours who I thought was great friends with my middle daughter used to physically and emotionally bullying her sister that was two years younger quite relentlessly.

Now you mentioned that they were exactly 8 years old. It must be a bit of an emotional turning point for girls where they go one way or the other

@Pinkbonbon @RainyDays22 stop being so dramatic. Other posters on here have admitted to doing something similar and are likely not sociopaths. Some kids sometimes do weird and mean things, and 8 is still relatively young. OP, tell the parents and try to encourage nicer friends for your dd.

It’s quite scary the amount of people who are labelling an 8 year old a potential psychopath. This is clearly her friend she may well be immature for her age, possibly kids her own age don’t like her. So she has a friend and is very jealous. She did a horrible thing and the parents absolutely need to know but quit it with the silly she has potential to be manipulative and dangerous. I don’t think I have met a child who is not manipulative, it’s biologically inbuilt (crying) and they grow out of it.

I wouldn't say I'm being dramatic. If we spotted personality issues developing early and addressed them instead of making excuses for it in our children - maybe we wouldn't be dealing with so many criminal adults. Or abusers, or workplace bullies. Maybe we wouldn't teach our daughters to tolerate nasty people and give them second chance after second chance.

Thanks for your replies everyone. Its good to know I'm not over reacting.

I have kept the card and am very glad we have a google doorbell as proof. My partner says if we see them next time we should talk through it to scare them off! I like the idea!

In all seriousness though, I think it was the 8 year old and the fact that it was obviously planned gives me chills.
I don't really know the 8 year old at all. She is an only child (my DD is, too) and from what I have seen her mum is always on the phone and seems to be constantly in her pyjamas. Not trying to be unkind, but it's what I've seen.
The 4 year old is different. Her parents are young and glamorous and tbh not the people you'd expect to have 3 young kids. They do have 1 year old baby and I guess the focus is on him at the moment.

I dont mean to be judgey but I feel sad that in summer these kids have nothing better to do.
Fortunately I have a busy few days out of the house with DD with friends so hopefully we won't see these children for a good few days at least.
I've not said anything to the parents yet as I'm thinking through how best to say it. I will though.
I have the number of 4 year olds mum and she is on WhatsApp. I do want to photograph it and send it to her but I'm not sure this is the best approach?
I've considered talking to the 8 year old myself, away from others. I often see her playing outside. Just to let her know this wasn't very nice and not to do it again. She can't protest it wasn't her to her parents as we have proof. But, thinking all options through.

The estate, although friendly has a strange dynamic where kids from 4 seem to be roaming round. No other parents to be seen. I'm always with DD. I will not leave her on her own with these kids, no way.
Its not something I was ever allowed to do. We did live on a main road when I was a kid, but we had fields at the back and I wasn't allowed to play there until 1st year secondary school.
It could be a tough estate. I'm from a not particularly nice area of the North west and I do remember friends who lived on estates when I was young (but not 4!) had similar problems.
I feel sorry for DD. Very protective now and just want to give her plenty of love and cuddles.
I probably sound ridiculous!
But thank you all x

It's unkind, i would be disappointed and let parents of both children know.

The child is 8, she is probably a bit jealous that 4 year old has a new friend. I would hope once parents know they will talk to her about this as part of learning how to behave.