Do beautiful women realize that ugly women are treated very differently?

[UglyNameChange]

My friend (who is very beautiful) got into a relationship not so long ago and said how she hopes I’ll be soon in one too - she knows I’d like a relationship also.
Well, few days ago she was telling me to just go to a bar and get chatted up with men, it won’t be long etc. and I’d just had to laugh, and asked her does she remember any man to ever have done that before and why would is sudenly have changed.
I think I accidentally made things akward because she went really quiet.
She pretty much can go anywhere and men will start up conversation or get asked out.

And this made me think if she genuinely thought we all have the same opportunities?

I don't think attractive women do realise, at least not fully - you can never truly stand in someone else's shoes. And I don't agree this is a 'self esteem issue'. It's possibly to appraise yourself realistically against accepted standards of beauty and define yourself as being at the lower/bottom end. If that's you, you are likely to be ignored in bars etc. or worse, receive insulting comments from men who are very anxious that their mates should know you are way beneath their standard.

There is truth in that, eventually, it might happen - I met my now-husband in a pub, but he was a friend of my sister's, not a stranger. Sadly I have only ever had no or negative attention from strangers in that sort of environment, which is one I avoid more often than not anyway.

@GratefulMe

😂😂 We used to pretend we were lesbians. Always had them flocking. You’re not my type mate but she is …😂.

Well it was fun at the time.

No, she won't have automatically realised. Especially if she doesn't consider herself to be beautiful, she would just assume how she is treated is how most women similar to her age are treated.

Don't realise.. think all women are treated as they are or even if they're slightly aware they get a bit more attention, they don't think it's by massive amounts

At the risk of sounding like a bellend, I am above averagely attractive and skinny. I'm old now, in my forties but when I was in my late teens and 20s I was always getting scouted for modelling.

My experience of being young, beautiful and skinny was that, yes, some things like job interviews, etc, were probably easier. But also it made me realise that there are a ton of sleazy, creepy men everywhere trying to get into your knickers. I hated being in a club and being 'visible' to these men. Getting chatted up at a bar was my idea of hell. I couldn't trust any man not to just be using me for my looks. Never mind free drinks, I once got free flights to America off a guy I met in a bar for me and my friend (he worked for the airline). In my naivety I thought it was bloody brilliant, but then he wanted 'payback' and stalked me for a while afterwards. That taught me a huge lesson about the transactional basis of 'pretty privilege'.

From early adulthood I became very guarded and spiky and didn't like the attention. Also, it was very difficult to make decent female friends because lots of girls I met were bitchy towards me out of jealousy I guess, so I could be quite lonely until I found my tribe.

A true story from many years ago.

Work colleague, looked like Britney spears,and also slim.

Me very very average looks and 10 years older.

She spotted a good looking guy she fancied. she was too shy to approach him.
we were out on works do.

I went up and told him my very pretty friend liked him and introduced them.

We left them together and carried on dancing.

10 minutes later this same guy was at my side saying, I like you better your friend is very quiet.

I was happily married so had to decline.

This night proved to me that it's not all about looks.

No, I will be honest here and tell you that I’ve always been treated well by men, even now, well into middle age and I have to say I think it’s due to my looks. My friends often point it out. I’d have to be blind not to notice it. It’s not right and makes me feel quite sad that men are so shallow that I get treated like that simply because I won the genetic lottery not because of my skills or talent. It also makes me feel awkward when I get this obvious treatment and my friends don’t. I can tell it upsets them which in turn makes
me feel a bit shit.

Someone I work with told me I’m one of the nicest people they know the other day. I felt quite pathetic but I was so grateful that someone thought that about me. It meant so so SO much more than the men’s approval over my appearance.

@catandcoffee I liked your story! What a nice ego boost :) It's also nice to hear a story of a man not being so shallow.

The things with looks as well is that it's subjective. There have been women that I thought were drop dead gorgeous yet my DH didn't and vice versa. It could be the tiniest thing like being a boobs guy or liking striking and large noses or having a thing for blue/brown/whatever eyes that trump the attraction.

I fall somewhere in the middle of this debate - there's no point in pretending looks don't matter but I also think charimsa counts as much for women as it does for men, and an abundance of it can compensate a lot for mediocre looks.

It's much more than being beautiful irs also about sex appeal, some people can be objectively beautiful ,and have zero personality, and some people can average or below average looking but , have a brilliant personality, be flirtatious and become increasingly attractive to others the more people get to know them
Also it's a cliche but beauty is very much in the eye of the beholder .

When I read threads about sleazy men and general sexism, I wonder how people live in such a different world to me. I've worked in a male dominated industry for 30 years and have always had respect, never any unwanted sexual advances.

I've always laboured under the belief that it's because they respect me professionally. Now I know it's just that I'm ugly!

I have found it awkward when my friends' partners have jokingly flirted with me in front of them or even behind their backs. I would feel awful if my partner was doing this.
I have felt very awkward and very annoyed when I was told by one man that I should be in modelling and not in my (in my opinion 'good') career, that it doesn't matter what I do in my career, my looks are the most striking thing about me and if he was 20 years younger etc etc.
I have had so much harassment. I've had male colleagues say inappropriate things to me.
I did really think all women experienced this every day and even if I was slightly aware it was not as much as this, I thought there was still a good amount of it for every woman.

Pretty privilege doesn't come without a much higher amount of unwanted male behaviour. Pretty women are often seen as a sexual commodity ("I'd do her" / "she's a 10") and not taken seriously in more corporate environments.

For that reason I'd hardly call it privilege.

But then we only tend see the positives of the things we are envious of.

@WotsitsFingers
Yes it was 😉

Very few women are beautiful and very few are ugly, so it's not really an issue OP. I very much doubt you are ugly, in my 50 years I've seen few actually ugly women. In fact I can only think of one and even that might have been down to the hideous glasses she wore.

Most young women are attractive - but maybe in different ways. You might lose your looks a bit as you get older but only if you try to judge yourself against the way you were at 20. If you are 50 and judge yourself against other 50 year olds, you are unlikely to look worse and quite possibly better - some women age really well.

Ha ha, yes I think Laura Bates (the one who wrote Everyday Sexism) suffered more harassment in a morning than I have in my entire life! I don't think I am ugly though - at least, I've never had problems attracting male attention when I wanted it.

A similar thing happened to me at university. A good friend of mine, who was breathtakingly beautiful, intelligent, funny, a dancer (funnily enough, she'd been a Britney Spears impersonator) was desperately in love with a mutual friend of ours. She'd been obsessed with him for over a year, and he knew.

Yet for some reason it was me he liked, and he told me so on a few occasions. Even though I really liked him too, and would have loved to go out with him, I brushed him off. Mainly because the drama would have been unthinkable, but partly because I just couldn't believe that he would prefer me over her. She was a famed beauty among the undergraduates. Men had a nickname for her that was a play on her name and how gorgeous she was.

Oh well.

I've never once dated a random man who approached me and chatted me up in a bar or club. They were never the type I found anything in common with. When I was in my teens and twenties I found it really pathetic watching them circling groups of women like sharks, when all the women wanted to do was go out dancing and enjoy the music and each other's company. They were like buzzing gnats, nothing more than a nuisance.

I also don't understand the concept of trying so hard to meet someone and have a relationship for the sake of having a relationship. For me, that happens organically or it doesn't happen.

Superficial attractiveness isn't what it's cracked up to be, and can sometimes be the very reverse of 'privilege', as a PP above has mentioned. Age is a great leveller. Far from mourning the passing of my youthful looks, I can't wait to embrace the age of invisibility people keep talking about. It's liberating. It's very sad (not meant sarcastically) seeing frequent lamentations from women who believe they have nothing left going for them once their looks have faded. This is so wrong, showing our society values absolutely the wrong things. Women are not put on this planet to decorate it.

Sorry you are feeling lonely, OP. The right relationship will happen when it's time, and IMO it's better to be single than only valued for your superficial appearance. The kind of men who want a trophy 6 foot blonde on their arm usually take off faster than a rat up a drainpipe once they realize you have a brain, opinions, and independent identity of your own. And who needs a partner like that?

What's beautiful and what's ugly? It's in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?
There are woman who say about themselves 'I'm a beautiful woman", but to me they are average at best. And vice versa.

This.

I'm genuinely curious as to how many people on here know great, single men because threads similar to this one pop up a lot and people say "be more confident", "get out more", "use online dating", "chat to men in bars" etc.

But I honestly think great men are in short supply and whilst the above suggestions may get A single man's attention, will it attract a good one?

Personally, I don't know ANY wonderful single men; not one. The single men I know are divorced for good reason, or single for good reason (think cheaters, man-child, angry, work-shy etc). Yet I know some amazing single women (& some great men in relationships).

The OP can have all the self confidence in the world, but if the great men don't exist (or if they do but tend to go for the more conventionally attractive women) what chance does she have?

I say this not to be awful to the OP (you could be Kate Moss for all I know) but honestly wondering where all the fabulous single men are. 🤔

This. I always say to people, I didnt get to choose my face. It's just pot luck

I get a lot of male attention, their nice to me ect. But it's not genuine is it? They dont want to get to know me, they just like the way I look. It's actually really hurtful.

I was your DD when I was young. Your post has brought back a lot of uncomfortable memories, I really feel for her. Add to everything the hurt and humiliation you feel when boys/men you genuinely believed were good friends who loved you platonically make a pass at you and it turns out they've just been biding their time all along.
It causes problems with female friendships too, more than once when introduced to a friends new Boyfriend they would try to flirt with me, touch me too much or make lame wife-swapping joke and although my friends knew this wasn't my fault, I still caught the brunt if their anger at times.

Now I'm 38 and a size 14, when I look in the mirror I just see a frumpy mum looking back at me, but I still get a lot of unwanted male attention, as well as bitchiness from women who don't know me. Work has always been frustrating as before people get to know me they underestimate my intelligence and level of education and then I'm supposed to take it as a compliment when they act all surprised and impressed that I'm actually competent. When male colleagues praise my work or act supportively i'm never sure if its because they value me as a professional or something else. When I share my thoughts in a meeting and they all nod enthusiastically in agreement, even though rationally I know I'm good at my job and my contribution has value, a little bit of me wonders if I could just be saying any old shite.

It depends on your view of beauty. Outward-looking beauty, if there is no substance underneath, the beauty disappears very quickly. If there is plenty of substance there, a fascinating, charismatic, funny, and intelligent person the beauty shines through for me. The most beautiful people I have met aren't always the most aesthetically pleasing but good lord they are sexy as hell due to everything else.
So I can see why you think the way you do but it can be a bit of a smoke screen. For that reason, I voted yabu.

I think the vast majority of us are nearly beautiful or ugly. It’s a tiny percentage at the extremes. I’m typical, fairly slim but need to be careful with clothes and hide my belly. Skin ok, fine with make up. Pretty bad teeth with gaps, but nice hair. Balances out to someone that can look really rough at times, but scrubs up decent.

I do though have a number of friends also in this middle ground, eg overweight but attractive face and lovely smile or slim but not facially fitting beauty norms. They however focus on one feature and blow it up to ‘ugly’, eg they are fat and therefore ugly. You can’t point out how many beautiful women aren’t slim. It’s like a shut down.

Maybe she has a point and you are both neither at the extremes?