AIBU to think social mobility for working class children is now impossible?

[frozenlakes]

When I was growing up even people from the most deprived backgrounds could still better themselves despite their limitations.

Except the concept of "working your way up the ladder" just doesn't seem to exist anymore?

Every career route now seems to require at least a degree. I remember the time when there was little to no emphasis on qualifications or degrees, unless you wanted to be a doctor or lawyer.
Dead-end administration jobs are being disguised as "entry level" positions and yet still require at least 5 GCSES and A levels.
It seems like if you don't have a degree you're stuck in low paid jobs with little opportunity for progression.

But then there's so much emphasis on Russell Group unis, which are statistically even more unrealistic for disadvantaged kids to get in to.

When it comes to owning property even young people from good socio-economic backgrounds will never get on the housing ladder, but at least they will most likely inherit a property. Working class kids wont.

I come from a "deprived" background - grew up on a council estate, left school at 16 with no qualifications, etc. But by the time I was 23 I'd "worked my way up" to a decent, well paid job (which now you'd need a degree for!) and had a mortgage. It scares me to think how different things would be for me if I was growing up in this day and age.

Have you seen how much university costs these days?

Full maintenance and fee loans are easily accessible to those from low income backgrounds.

AIBU to think social mobility for working class children is now impossible?

Its always been impossible for the majority of working class children. The elite have to keep it that way because you can’t run a civilisation without a large working class. All you’re seeing is that the opportunity you were lucky enough to get & seize through hard work has been closed off for future generations. Working class moving up the social class ladder is a game of whack a mole to the upper classes.

I grew up on a council estate in a not well off family, what improved things for me was getting a degree because it opened so many doors job wise. I lived in a town with a Russell Group uni and was lucky enough to get
into it because I couldn’t afford to move away. (Although I didn’t know it was RG until about 10 years after I graduated 😂) I only went because I didn’t have to pay fees and got a low interest loan for living costs. I wouldn’t have been able to go now, I wouldn’t have taken on the debt.

@Discovereads This is such a good take. One of the most thought-provoking posts on here.

No one's going to inherit property from the middle class. It gets sold to pay for care fees.

Not any more now that the £80k lifetime cap is in effect. So mama and papa need only a reverse mortgage to the tune of £160k against their £1.2m 5bed home in Kent. Their darlings will still get a £1m to split IHT free.

Not to mention the schools are often shit schools. You can work super duper hard, A* for effort but with shit teaching, you’re not going to get very far.

frozenlakes
Just to clarify on what I meant by working class (because people seem to be getting personally offended), I'm referring to deprived, disadvantaged children from inadequate households and communities. Not necessarily "normal" working class families, however all working class children do have limitations to an extent

Yeah, that's not working class. I'm from a working class family and that doesn't describe me. I'd describe working class as blue collar, manual workers maybe. The majority of working class families that I've met are very hard working and very decent, wanting the best for their children, but university isn't necessarily in their sphere of experience at all.

Not everyone is intelligent enough to get the qualifications needed no matter how hard they work.

AND the new and improved student loan system coming into effect for 2023 entrants purposely has lower earners paying MORE back than higher earners. And who gets the plum high £ jobs after graduating? Hmmm? The middle class students with connections, that’s who.

You have to understand the system to navigate it.

yes it’s easier to Google it now then when I didn’t go due to costs. But it still involves a lot of parental input.

it also depends what course you want to do and accommodation costs. Some you have to do placements which limits work opportunities. If your somewhere with high accommodation costs, your stuffed.

It’s debt and it affects your ability to save for a house deposit or into a pension.

Discoverreads
is the £80k cap in force? I thought it had been quietly abandoned during this Parliament. Hope I’m wrong!

It's a variety of things tbh

yes degrees are more accessible but not always sometimes the max maintenance doesn't sustain a student and that student might have to work a lot impacting grades.

I'm Black,neuro-diverse a woman and working class I work in a white male middle class sector, it's all well and good having a degree but social capital is important and overlooked and does imo hinder growth sometimes because if you're of a certain race/class some settings are hard to navigate because it isn't the 'norm' to you whereas it may well be for middle class kids. This can impact climbing the career ladder

Also, private renting is crippling young people and our ability to save for mortgages my rent takes up 50% of my wage.

It is true though. It's not the WC not wanting well paid jobs or to go to university. It's the MC and above who are scared the WC might come after their jobs.

Working class is a massive spectrum.
I don't know why people are trying to derail an actual discussion by attempting to correct terminology.

@YellowPlumbob You've made so many good points there. My family also sneered at my education ambitions. Good on you for bettering yourself despite such a shit upbringing.

I come from a deprived area (Newham in east London)
I left school with 9 A grade GCSEs in 1997. I couldn’t go to college as I needed to pay into the family pot, so I got a job in a factory where I stayed for 5 years until I met my ex husband and had my children.
1 person from my year group went to college and university. The rest either ended up in a similar job to me, had a teenage pregnancy or were in jail before they were 21, and that’s not an exaggeration.

Very good point. This is the main reason why it scares me to think where I would have ended up, as I'm definitely not academically gifted. I'm lucky enough to have a job that nowadays would require a good degree from a good university. It was just simply easier back then.

I work in one of the traditional professional sectors for a very large firm. All of the firms at our level no longer ask which university applicants went to, or which school, on the application form.

Thats not my experience. I went to a crap comprehensive school, from a poor family (unemployed parents, free school dinners) and had no issues getting into a Russel Group Uni. Decent graduate job after that and steady career well paid.

My student loan payments are quite high, and I worked part time whilst studying. It would have been lovely to have cheaper fees or family who offered to pay.

I just checked. It’s been increased to £86k and comes into effect Oct 2023. So not abandoned.
www.theaccessgroup.com/en-gb/blog/hsc-the-social-care-cap-explained/

You still have to pay the residential element of the care home!

And yes of course you have to navigate the loan system etc and yes it's incredibly incredibly difficult for some. But given that far far more working class kids (including those from the most deprived backgrounds) go to uni now than ever did, OP's assertion is simply not true.

When I was growing up even people from the most deprived backgrounds could still better themselves despite their limitations.

I stopped reading at the full stop. Me and my multiple postgraduate qualifications and professional jobs never had any limitations. Poverty doesn't make you limited. And what is "bettering oneself"? A lot of middle class angst in that one sentence

Poverty doesn't make you limited? You can't be serious.

Oh dear God - I just spotted the "inadequate households". If I had pearls I might have to clutch them.