To wonder why men hate women so much?

[YouAreNotBatman]

Violence againt women, sexual harrasment.

Controlling women bodies.

Women’s sexuality: frigid prude if you don’t want sex, slut if you.

Porn, sex ”work”.

All the MRA’s, mgtow, incels etc.

Even historically speaking they have no reason to be angry at women, women never had any power, mostly tried to accommodate to men’s demand/ wants, I think it still goes on.

Many women still tip toe the line to placate men.

What reason do they have to be so angry at women?

I've just finished 'The Women's Room' by Marilyn French and was so relieved to know that at least one other woman feels/felt the way that I do.
They really do hate us.
The term 'male feminist' is an oxymoron.
The mast majority do not understand the true horror of sexual violence.
I remember a colleague a couple of years ago saying that a rape recently committed by a premier league footballer 'wasn't that bad' because it took place in a hotel room and she was unconscious so it wasn't a 'violent rape'. Pretty sure he was one of the self proclaimed 'male feminists'.

I have to say that when I visited England, I thought that women are treated really well there. Women were treated better there, than nearly everywhere else I have been.

Do you think that you are treated badly there?

@Sheepreallylikerichteabiscuits

I don’t disagree with a lot of what you wrote but I don’t really care about the gender pay gap. Why should we fix it? What makes people think it can even stay “fixed” in a natural way?

Theres not really any good reason to think that left to their own devices men and women will both end up earning (as a class) exactly the same amount so that we have a gender pay of 50% each.
Why would that be expected to happen? Why is it even desirable to push for?

I think we need to get real. Men and women are fundementally different, both physically and mentally and that can’t change - we need to deal with that reality in a world where technology has made it possible for us to both do paid work.
Instead we’re deluding ourselves that if we just socialise men differently men and women won’t act and think in gendered ways. That’s not realistic, not when we have different hormones shaping us.

I think it’s important women are protected and given chances to work and chances to escape abuse but to be honest I don’t care at all about a gender pay gap or a lot of those things because I think fixing things like that usually just takes the form of taking from men to give to women, which only lasts as long as men like it and just pisses them off making it likely it won’t last forever. It’s not natural to expect us to be 50 percent split in all parts of society, it’s moronic as an aim imo.

but many men dont have daughters, nieces, grandaughters. There are a lot of single men until old age now

They've at least had a mother and grandmothers, right? Most will have had female friends as some point. So why wouldn't men be spurred on to improve the world for the women, when they've known women that presumably loved them and that they loved?

All of my problems with men have come down to sex, every romantic relationship and a few friendships too.
Jealousy, possessiveness, sulking, violence, gas lighting. All of it at its heart is sex and sexuality.

@Treacletoots

How exactly did womens recent football win prove women “are better at most things”?
That makes very little sense

Yeah but why would you think that they would be close to their mothers. A lot of men do not get on with their mothers at all. Just becuase you had a mother doesnt mean that you had a good relationship with her. Having a mother definitely isnt going to spur a lot of people on to fight for womens rights.

Men love power. Dominant groups love power. We would be naive to think they would ever give it up. No dominant group will give up power. The change has to come from the oppressed.

Yes, what a stupid thing to say.

Women all over the world are subjected to shit behaviour from men, we shouldn't accept anything which is wrong and shouldn't be asked to feel lucky because it is worse in XXXX country,

@Suetodo88

Men and women are different biologically and in some hormones

That does not equate to equality being impossible

Men aren't better than women. They're not more suited to being in positions of power.

I understand why you would not care about the gender pay gap when you are not currently in the work force. However, when you go back to the workforce and find yourself paid less for doing the same, or a very similar job, to a man you may feel differently.

I think the thing is whatever we want ultimately we have to rely on mens support for it to exist if we want it to be enshrined in law. We can’t just say fuck men and then ask men to enforce the laws that protect us from them or at work etc - especially if they don’t agree with them.

Thats like asking a man to punch himself in the face if he does something you don’t like even if he doesn’t think he’s in the wrong. Ultimately he just sees you as the violent one.

I really fear democracy won’t survive the attempt at gender equality. It’s a fragile thing and like all types of political system, it’s only upheld by the violence of men to carry out its laws and protect it.

Im just pointing out, that when I went to England, its the first time that I ever felt that I was talked to with respect by men. It was the first time that I felt I was really spoken to with respect, like a human being.
I would love to live in England. It is my dream to live in England. I was treated with so much respect by men there. It is interesting to hear other women's opinions on what it is like to live there.

It's actually fairly rare to meet someone who is so out there about how women shouldn't be treated equally. Most people try to hide it under a veneer, but the misogyny is just bursting out here isn't it.

Yeah but why would you think that they would be close to their mothers. A lot of men do not get on with their mothers at all. Just becuase you had a mother doesnt mean that you had a good relationship with her. Having a mother definitely isnt going to spur a lot of people on to fight for womens rights

Grandmothers, aunts, friends etc you can't be seriously trying to say that loads of men have had no women in their lives that they've loved and liked?

I've always thought it was likely two things. Firstly, sort of being 'in competition' with women. Obv they're not as they go for gay men, but many seem to nonetheless display that 'bitchy' streak we mainly see between women.

I also think they see heterosexual men bending over backwards to please women and feel resentment when they see women who use men (see threads like the recent 'I want to marry a rich man' for examples).

I think it's wrong to assume that men (in general) hate women, or fear women, or even dislike women.

We try to rationalise things from within the limits of understanding, assuming that there must be a rational explanation for why there is violence by men against women.

From the female point of view, we think we'd only commit violence against someone we hated, therefore men must hate women to commit violence against them. That's bullshit. A woman thinks someone has to have a reason to be violent but a man sees violence as a just being a part of what makes people human.

Violence has been ever present throughout the history of humanity. There is shocking violence in the animal world on a daily basis. To a man, violence is normal. Not to say that all men are violent on a regular basis, but just that it's possible to be violent towards someone without having a reason to do so.

We don't "hate" wild animals that kill. We don't "hate" dogs because they occasionally kill people. We might put a dog to sleep if it kills a child, but the people killing it are not doing it out of hatred and try to minimise its suffering.

Remember that most victims of assaults by men are also male themselves. By the logic that men assault women because they "hate" them, you must surely believe men "hate" other men too. Therefore it's a hatred of everyone that drives them to violence and gender is irrelevant.

Personally I believe the main reason for assaults by men on women are nothing to do with "hatred" - since most assaults against women are committed by their partner/parent, I think the prime cause is frustration that the particular woman (not women generally) is not doing what the man thinks they should be.

That's all it is: frustration and a misplaced belief that the only way to get the woman to behave as they wish them to is through violence.

Absolutely Im saying it. A lot of people are not close to their families.
Even myself, I didnt have any grandmothers at all, both of them were dead before i was born.
I have three aunties, we never speak except at weddings, which is about once every four years.

My best male friend has four aunties. He doesnt talk to them at all. He is not that close to his mother. He just sees her at Christmas.

A lot of people are not close to their families.

Its not a stupid thing to say. Women in England are treated better than nearly everywhere else. Fact.

You dont have to feel lucky. But maybe you should appreciate it. My friend moved to England recently, and she said that she would never move back to her country ever. As women are treated so much better in England.

When I went to England, it was the first time that I ever felt respected as a woman. Its brilliant over there for women.

Similarly, I think some men resent not being able to just find a rich woman and live a life of luxury subsidised by them. Even those that wouldn't want to do this likely think dimly of it.

It's common even on here. Look at the current thread I mentioned above - 'I want to marry a rich man'. Loads of posters replied encouraging the OP, with some saying they'd done exactly that and were living the dream.

Feminists always try and distance themselves from these women/downplay their existence, whist simultaneously lumping all men together, which is a bit disingenuous IMO.

i think many men are angry and that they direct far more at women than other men

I don’t know why

is it fear from childhood it couldn’t be directed at their fathers so directed at their mother who loved them unconditionally

I think sex is just one reason but it’s far more complex why so much anger and often hatred

why the anger towards me when I make a suggestion at work that is better than a male colleague 🙄

@Sheepreallylikerichteabiscuits

I don’t know what you mean? Isn’t what I’m saying true? We need to rely on mens goodwill to a certain extent? Is it misogny to think just telling men to fuck themselves but do as we ask forever isn’t going to lead anywhere good?

Personally I’d like to hear from male lurkers if any about this.

Dominant groups will never, ever give up power. Ever.

They never have in history.

The only times changes are made are when the oppressed people fight back..

But trying to get women to fight back in large numbers seems to be so hard. Its easier to come on here and say "men are dickheads", than say "what can I do to make change. What can I do to make womens rights better".

Seeing that the responsibility lies with us to make change. We have to do the work.

Yes, I think this is what it boils down to. Womb envy, Freud got it all mixed up.

@Sheepreallylikerichteabiscuits

I don’t want men and women to be pitied against each other. I don’t want my sons to grow up resenting women or being held back.
I don’t think I’m doing anything wrong by not doing my part for the “gender pay gap” and if I’m not the only one then why would I have such a problem with it?

I do want to live in a society where people who don’t conform to rigid gender roles aren’t looked down on. Whether that’s equality or not is up for debate but I don’t really think we can measure if “equality” is achieved anyway so it’s a somewhat meaningless thing to talk about. I just want people to all have a chance but to do that we have to work with human nature, not against it.

And how exactly are your sons going to be held back by women?