To wonder why men hate women so much?

[YouAreNotBatman]

Violence againt women, sexual harrasment.

Controlling women bodies.

Women’s sexuality: frigid prude if you don’t want sex, slut if you.

Porn, sex ”work”.

All the MRA’s, mgtow, incels etc.

Even historically speaking they have no reason to be angry at women, women never had any power, mostly tried to accommodate to men’s demand/ wants, I think it still goes on.

Many women still tip toe the line to placate men.

What reason do they have to be so angry at women?

This looks really interesting - thanks for posting.

That's really interesting and actually quite encouraging as it does indicate that men and women both have a more progressive view towards equality in the workplace at least.

@Suetodo2

I am not talking about some men vs women apocalypse please. I am talking about the inherent danger in large swathes of men feeling that society doesn’t work for them and so being drawn to whatever promises to make it better. That’s not apocalypse it’s happened before many time and you can see an incompetent version of it going on in America in the very recent past.

But why should we pander to this?

Women have felt for millennia that society "doesn't work for them". It still doesn't for billions of us. Those of us posting on this thread are the tip of a very privileged iceberg, on a global scale, in that we have some protection under law against this sort of bigotry. Millions of women around the world have none.

What's happened in the past 50 years is a very minor readjustment of the dial towards the centre. Things like protecting the right of a woman not to be fired as soon as she has become pregnant. Or to be paid an equal salary to a man doing the exact same job. Why should this minor readjustment men feel "society doesn't work for them"? I genuinely don't understand why this should be so threatening to men and frankly I don't want anything to do with any man who feels threatened by my wanting to earn the same pay as him.

As someone else pointed out upthread you are speaking entirely in the language of threats. Male threats. If you try to take "my" job I will threaten you. If you don't get back into the kitchen where you belong I will stop supporting you. It's the language of the bully and its a language which has been used to silence and marginalise women for thousands of years.

Vague, waffling and slightly sinister language about "what will happen" if we don't back down isn't good enough.

@Lunar270

Er literally every revolution or attempt at one ever? Every civil war?
I’m not saying that’s going to happen next year or anything crazy like that. I’m just saying there is a danger in just telling men to suck it up and pushing continually for changes they don’t want that little by little it could go that way. I think In many ways the right wing rising which was largely men was caused in part by it (though they didn’t specify that). Honestly the right wing governments like Trump and the Brexit crowd probably would have pushed things further if they weren’t incompetent buffoons.

@Thepeopleversuswork

I really don’t believe that men owe it to women to change workplaces (they make) for them if they don’t wish to. I said that already, I’m not afraid of trying to push for that out of the consequences. I find it wrong and frankly leeching behaviour.

Ultimately it’s not what we think that matters on this, it’s what men think about it all. Only they can decide really. You act like we can just force them to do what we want forever but that’s simply not the case. I think it’s a mistake to try. I don’t even think it’s right to try. That’s why I was talking about women making more original workplaces and so on for themselves. Hopefully that way both men and women can be happy and fulfilled. I don’t believe trying to force men to cater to women in everything is good.

Women are seductively dangled in front of men and some men are socially awkward and resort to porn its no surprise.

@Suetodo2

I really don’t believe that men owe it to women to change workplaces (they make) for them if they don’t wish to.

There's so much wrong with this I don't know where to start. You seem to be taking as the starting point that men have an automatic right of refusal over every workplace in the UK as a sex class. This is absolute nonsense. Even if this weren't morally objectionable is illegal. The law states that people cannot be discriminated against on the basis of their sex so what you are proposing is against the law and has been for many decades. That ship (thankfully) sailed a long time ago.

Also the idea that men "created" all workplaces is demonstrably false. I work for a firm founded and owned by women (which happens to employ a lot of men who are all perfectly happy working for a woman). Should my founding CEO "hand over" her business to a man because that's the natural way of things? What about workplaces with overwhelmingly female workforces. Should they be obliged to have everything signed over to a man?

Ultimately it’s not what we think that matters on this, it’s what men think about it all. Only they can decide really.

Why? Why is it up to men to decide this and not women? Why should 50% of the population get the casting vote on what the other 50% do?

You act like we can just force them to do what we want forever but that’s simply not the case.

What does this even mean? We're not forcing them to do anything they don't want to do. We're refusing to allow them to treat us like second class citizens.

It just sounds like you don't have a clue what you're talking about, to be honest. I think you need to do a lot of reading.

Can you give any examples of these (forced )changes that workplaces have to make specifically for women?

I really don’t believe that men owe it to women to change workplaces (they make) for them if they don’t wish to. I said that already, I’m not afraid of trying to push for that out of the consequences. I find it wrong and frankly leeching behaviour.
Ultimately it’s not what we think that matters on this, it’s what men think about it all. Only they can decide really. You act like we can just force them to do what we want forever but that’s simply not the case. I think it’s a mistake to try. I don’t even think it’s right to try. That’s why I was talking about women making more original workplaces and so on for themselves. Hopefully that way both men and women can be happy and fulfilled. I don’t believe trying to force men to cater to women in everything is good.

Not one bit of makes sense.

Lets say a woman wants to become a doctor in a male dominated field. She works hard, gets the required qualifications and experience. Instead of applying for a job through a fair recruitment process you would expect her to set up her own hospital or medical practice? Because if she was employed by an existing hospital then she would be 'leeching' and stealing a job from it's rightful male owner.
Is that what you're suggesting?

I'm struggling to believe you aren't on the wind up with comments as ludicrous as this.

If feels ike Serena Joys thought process while dreaming up Gilead

Frightening isn't it?

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

What is untrue about that?
I have no clue who Serena Joys is

@Suetodo2

You don't see how horrific your comments are?

That you think women are 2nd class citizens unable to do anything if men don't allow it.

Did you get your ohs permission before posting?

What evidence do you have that if it were up to women to change societal systems men wouldn't get a look in? Granted there would be adjustments made for historical injustice or unfairness. Some men may think that's doing them a disservice but hey ho.

If what's stopping us is fear those men may mobilise and take violent action well we have actually come full circle and a large number of men do hate women.

The optimist in me thinks the apparently majority of good men would dilute this.take counter action.

So yes - there will always be the idiots and there maybe more. I'm having faith in those who believe they are a majority

I did love your puppy comment earlier though

Doh minority obv.

Er literally every revolution or attempt at one ever? Every civil war?
I’m not saying that’s going to happen next year or anything crazy like that. I’m just saying there is a danger in just telling men to suck it up and pushing continually for changes they don’t want that little by little it could go that way. I think In many ways the right wing rising which was largely men was caused in part by it (though they didn’t specify that). Honestly the right wing governments like Trump and the Brexit crowd probably would have pushed things further if they weren’t incompetent buffoons.

Every revolution and civil war eh. Did they really start because Che Guevara was told to do the dishes and to pull his weight a bit more.

But thanks as I'm relieved it's not going to happen next year. I was planning a holiday but will make sure I stay indoors the year after, just in case.

But what about all the men like me, who are happy to 'suck it up'? What will we do in all this?

Of course not, the same way she can't come up with ways my work product differs from a mans because of my hormones, or specific companies who have been forced to take on female executives.

Its all made up problems with no basis in reality in the hope of threatening us back into the kitchen so that she feels more comfortable with her life choices and so that her sons benefit from male privilege.

I've remembered from another thread she has a daughter. I sincerely hope she has some better female role models in her life.

That's exactly what I have been thinking.

Its not even just the good men we have to hope for.

We are in a flipping cost of living crisis, like equality or not, loads more men are relying on their wife's income nowadays.

The days of the average male breadwinner's wage being sufficient to buy a house and raise a family on are gone.

So actually even sexist men who believe they are superior are not going to be actively campaigning against women working any time soon unless they are on one of these 6 figure salary's every MN's husband is supposedly on.

@Lunar270

Every revolution and civil war eh. Did they really start because Che Guevara was told to do the dishes and to pull his weight a bit more.

LOL. Back to school I think for @Suetodo2

You really are sounding junevile now. Name changed have we ?

I really, really hope you don't have a daughter. I also pity the future wives of your sons.