To wonder why men hate women so much?

[YouAreNotBatman]

Violence againt women, sexual harrasment.

Controlling women bodies.

Women’s sexuality: frigid prude if you don’t want sex, slut if you.

Porn, sex ”work”.

All the MRA’s, mgtow, incels etc.

Even historically speaking they have no reason to be angry at women, women never had any power, mostly tried to accommodate to men’s demand/ wants, I think it still goes on.

Many women still tip toe the line to placate men.

What reason do they have to be so angry at women?

@idontwanna

I'm not sure the research is that conclusive or that it's worth the drawbacks.

Or that it's impossible for wp to achieve the same result

@perfectstorm Yes, you are probably right. I fully respect what you are doing, and wish all the best to you and your children. I am sure you will be able to support many others who are struggling and that your children will have the support to reach their full potential (and thereby contribute to our society!)

I am literally pissing myself at this thread. Why do men hate women?? Seems to me that women hate women! Take a step back and see what a bitch fest it has become. I love men but then I have been lucky with the men in my family and I have a great husband. I think there are some very embittered women on this thread. Yes there are some nasty men but there are some bloody vile women as well- as this thread proves. Ladies if you want be a SAHM and if you don’t it’s your choice and either is fine, don’t allow some bloody bitter man hating bully of a woman dictate what’s right for you and your family.

Women who hate men want to stay as far away from men as possible - have nothing to do with them. Men who hate women want to hurt women, want to cause us pain, mental and physical.

Yes, its sickening.

Yeah whatever 🙄

Are you 12 ?

Ladies if you want be a SAHM and if you don’t it’s your choice and either is fine, don’t allow some bloody bitter man hating bully of a woman dictate what’s right for you and your family.

This is inflammatory nonsense. Someone tipped up with the usual woe is me thing about why SAHMs aren't "valued" more.

Whenever someone does this its invariably a smokescreen for the fact that that person believes that mothers should take care of their own children and not work. Sure enough, said poster then went on to post screeds of absolute bollocks about the workplace having been invented by men and it therefore being their right to define how it should look in perpetuity and even suggested that our attempting to take from them what's rightly theirs would lead to social breakdown.

Yes there was some contentious stuff but the fact that several posters shot this nonsense down in flames doesn't make any of them "man haters".

@Thepeopleversuswork

And still no reason given as to why being a sahm should be valued more. (More than what?)

Except some rubbish about sahms not bringing up stabby 10 yos ams being more heavily invested in their kids

And that is exactly it. Men are physically stronger than women so altercations can easily lead to violence. I think you have just said that it is human nature?

Indeed. This is a great explanation of what I was trying to get at. We still have a sock dynamic where the man chases the women in many cases. A fair number of women like to exploit this to varying degrees, and I think men who aren't attracted to women see through this.

Regarding the pay gap, I think there are things both sexes do to exacerbate it TBH.

Men are competitive, likely by nature of testosterone, so they aren't likely to stop vying for power/money anytime soon. However, a big contributor IMO is the societal worth we place on high earning men as partners.

People tend to downplay it on here but there's plenty of evidence to show it's still a huge factor. Lots of studies show that women prioritise 'status' and 'financial security' in a partner much more than men do. It's also documented that women are more likely to divorce a lower earning partner or a man that becomes a SAHD.

I'm a bit conflicted about some elements tbh, because I generally believe that couples should individually do what works for them, even if it's the women taking a back seat to support the partner's higher earning capacity, if this genuinely benefits the family as a whole and is her desire.

However, on the other hand, this ideally needs to work the other way round too, and right now it doesn't.

I feel that our arguments for equal pay are somewhat undermined when you have many of the powerful high earning men thinking "hmm, well my wife does pretty well from my massive salary and hard work, with her enjoying a very comfortable lifestyle despite working part time."

Lots of studies show that women prioritise 'status' and 'financial security' in a partner much more than men do.

That's probably true still on balance, but that presupposes that a woman sees a man as her primary means of support.

For women who seek and gain financial independence, a man with high earning capacity is a much more ambiguous proposition. If you have your own money and career and want to continue working, a man who is determined to put his career advancement ahead of yours is not an attractive proposition. Because men like this tend to have certain expectations of their women and those are generally not compatible with the goals of ambitious women. Personally I would find a man who believed his career was more important than mine a real turn-off.

It is also true that a skint and poorly motivated man is not attractive to an ambitious woman. But the idea that a high-powered man is the ultimate goal of all women is less true than it used to be.

And I’m saying that my daughters will never be safe unless the wider problem is tackled. That’s an incentive.

I'm not sure how much one can generalise on this point tbh. On one hand, we have the stereotype of the 'Very Important Man' who according to mumsnet dogma usually wants a trophy wife/housewife to support him.

However, on the other hand, the typical mumsnet response to posters seeking a rich partner nearly always seems to be 'good luck with that, high flying men usually want a high earning woman/intellectual equal or somebody from their own circle and aren't interested in unambitious women.'

Both cannot be universally true but they're seemingly the two most common views on here, depending on the angle of the discussion.

@perfectstorm
I prefer to hope that the OP is having a rage surge, rather than expressing genuinely held beliefs.

I have no idea why you’d be worried about me.
Everything I wrote is real life.
The was / is no rage, there is no beliefs I hold about this or about men.
It’s real, actual life.
I’m not afraid to see it.

Speaking as a man on here, the level of venom and hatred towards men is truly shocking. For those contributors are saying “I didn’t mean all men “ but …. “ it is most men” that already conveys the point of view that you are saying “all men”. I complete agree some men are truly abominable towards women - the idea being strongly advocated on here that half the population are predominantly made up of testosterone fuelled, women hating species is just ridiculous.

Whilst I do agree with some of the comments on here, some are just outrageous and without foundation

A bit of balance and perspective please 🙏

@Guardian800

I’m more worried about the fact that women discussing about male behaviour is seen as ”man hating”.
I’d say that’s shocking, but it’s really not that suprising, sadly.

But yeah, ”A bit of balance and perspective please 🙏”, indeed.
Maybe one day men can give that to women….
Maybe.

@brookstar

curious about biology not making women take on more childcare and housework, asking an academic, you can probably, hopefully correct me!

breastfeeding surely does? and then sets a precedent? I’m now interested in seahorses…. As the males carry the young… (my next read after this thread).

With regards to housework…
I feel women take on more housework because they prefer a cleaner environment, isn’t feeling grossed out by something biology?
Genuinely interested in this as I do the majority of the housework and would love my other half (a man who doesn’t seem to see or be bothered by mess) to do more. If I can understand the reasons behind it, I can try to make changes without resorting to nagging and threats!

I imagine in early humans, women would naturally take on the majority of the child rearing while men would hunt. Is that a huge misconception, or socialisation at it’s beginning for humans?

'Speaking as a man on here, the level of truth spoken about men is truly shocking.'

There, fixed that for you

When we talk about men/male violence, we talk about men as a class. There is no need for NAMALT or "Not my Nigel".

We also don't just talk about the "truly horrible men" we talk about it all.. porn, "banter", harassment ,discrimination etc. It all adds up.

@YesJess

I think an ambitious and financially solvent woman wants and needs a man who is somewhere in the middle: both solvent and motivated enough that he will not seek to depend on the woman financially and progressive enough to understand that her career and her money-earning potential is as important as his.

The fact that these sorts of men are so vanishingly rare speaks to how difficult it remains for women to find a compatible compromise.

If I think of my contemporaries I can think of perhaps one couple where the partners are genuine financial equals where both careers get equal weight in the marriage. In the vast majority of cases either the woman is more or less totally dependent on the man financially or the woman out-earns the man and the man sits back and takes his foot off the pedal, with resentment growing on the part of the woman. Or, of course, the woman is single (and probably happier).

I have to say my personal experience is that women who go it alone financially are usually happier and more fulfilled than those who enmesh themselves with a man. That's not to say that women need to forego relationships, love and sex. But I think for ambitious, motivated women, being financially tied to a man is rarely a positive thing. It's a lose lose: either you sacrifice your own career and become dependent or you become more and more frustrated as the man fails to match your own ambition and drive.

Being a single parent has its downsides for sure but if you can make it work through the tough and expensive bit when childcare is expensive and everything is relentless, the long-term rewards are great.

Are the hurt feelings of you and other men more important than the number of women killed, physically and emotionally harmed by male violence?

I'd have a lot more time for NAMALT if men started doing more to stop the bad apples from wreaking carnage.

As they don't, I can only assume they don't think the apples are that bad after all

I think the emphasis on the [some] ‘men wanting sex’ point and seeing women primarily as providers of sexual favours is spot on. I am now of pension age and it is many years since I was catcalled, groped etc etc - because I am now clearly seen as ‘past it’.

@Guardian800

Oh do fuck off

There has been no venom or hatred towards men

And even if there had been it probably would have been justified

Women who have been sexually assaulted raped and suffered DV have every right to hate men.

The fact you think women discussing their oppression should be tempered so as no to upset poor men says it all.

The early experience of intense maternal affection is the basis for the development of a conscience and moral compassion for others.6) According to Chuck Smith, a Kansas State University child development expert, “as a child grows and matures, the mother—whether biological or a stepmother—plays an important role in her child's development, character and attitudes.”7) If a child's emotional attachment to their mother is disrupted during the first few years, permanent harm can be done to the child's capacity for emotional attachment to others. The child will be less able to trust others and throughout his or her life will stay more distant emotionally from others. Having many different caretakers during the first few years can lead to a loss of this sense of attachment for life and to antisocial behavior.8) Separation from the mother, especially between six months and three years of age, can lead to long-lasting negative effects on behavior and emotional development. Severe maternal deprivation is a critical ingredient of juvenile delinquency. As John Bowlby, the father of attachment research, puts it, “Theft, like rheumatic fever, is a disease of childhood, and, as in rheumatic fever, attacks in later life are frequently in the nature of recurrences.”9) A child's emotional attachment to their mother is powerful in other ways. For example, even after a period of juvenile delinquency, a young man's ability to become emotionally attached to his wife can make it possible for him to turn away from crime.10) This capacity is rooted in the very early attachment to his mother. We also know that a weak marital attachment resulting in separation or divorce accompanies a continuing life of crime.11)

Many family conditions can weaken a mother's attachment to her young child. Perhaps the mother herself struggles with emotional detachment.12) The mother could be so lacking in family and emotional support that she cannot fill the emotional needs of the child. She could return to work, or be forced to return to work, too soon after the birth of her child. Or, while she is at work, there could be a change in the personnel responsible for the child's day care. The more prevalent these conditions, the less likely a child will be securely attached to their mother and the more likely they will be hostile and aggressive.13)
www.marripedia.org/effects_of_parents_on_crime_rates

The single biggest indicator of poor outcomes for a child is lack of maternal bonding, returning to work reduces the physical attachment that cannot be disputed.