Girl tried to pull down my son’s shorts

[dontwanttooverreact]

My son is 4 and he went to a 3 hour camp at our sport’s club today. He had been yesterday with a school friend and today with the same friend. After pick up today he told us that a 10 year old girl had tried to pull down his pants and shorts “to see if he was a girl or a boy”.

he is upset, this was his first experience of camp and he is quite shy. Additionally the school friend independently told her mother the exact same story so i believe it (I believed it anyway but you never know with 4 year olds and details.

he told the supervisor who apparently said something to the girl but no one told us at pick up.

AIBU to be furious? I had assumed initially the girl was also 4/5, but 10?!? Surely that’s not on? What, if anything, can I do?

[Title edited by MNQ at poster's request]

Completely agree.
As a teacher (who has taught 10 year olds) and a safeguarding officer I'm appalled at the responses downplaying what has happened.
This boy will probably do it again to another small child who won't be able to get away.
I'd be speaking to the police.

Oh god I would absolutely hit the roof over this!!!

Those trying to minimise this sort of bullying, as you are doing, must come from a very different background to me.

Kids do silly things, in my school many children hit each other on the backside, one had a dress on and a little boy pulled her pants down, boys hit other boys in the Willy in my other school the boys have taken to pulling each other’s trousers down but none of this is sexual assault or harassment unless it was target at a specific child every time. Adults cannot do anything about it as kids can’t be watched all the time as there’s far to many of them. Children are learning and find things funny, but pulling another child’s trousers down once isn’t sexual harassment it’s just funny to kids, if it happened every time OPs son went to the club then yes that would be bullying as well as sexual harassment but one time isn’t anything to be worried about.

@StillHappy who is minimising bullying?

I'm simply stating this isn't a crime

@Mookie81 I guess you don't understand the concept of posters joking

@Greenleaf22

Children are learning and find things funny, but pulling another child’s trousers down once isn’t sexual harassment it’s just funny to kids,

Be honest - would you actually say to your four year old daughter, if she came to you upset and told you a ten year old boy had pulled her skirt down because he wanted to see if she had boy or girl privates, "it isn't anything to be worried about and he only did it once so it's a joke, not bullying"?

Really?

Bullshit would you.

What would you say to the police? What would you expect the outcome from the police to be? What would you do if the child that pull the trousers down parents put a complaint in? Complain about you personal for exaggerating? In your school what happens to a child if they do such a thing?

Not interested in engaging with you, your responses on a number of threads has concerned me.

Kids do silly things, in my school many children hit each other on the backside, one had a dress on and a little boy pulled her pants down, boys hit other boys in the Willy in my other school the boys have taken to pulling each other’s trousers down but none of this is sexual assault or harassment unless it was target at a specific child every time.

I hope you mean in your school when you were a child and not one you’ve worked in recently - because times have very much moved on from when this was seen as just ‘silly’ behaviour. Bums and genitals are off limits, simple as that. Fact is, in ten years time if the child behaved that way they may well end up getting arrested - so these aren’t classed as ‘silly things’. We teach them that it’s unacceptable in the same way that punching someone in the face or using racist language is unacceptable.

Yes of corse I would, I would ask has it happen before? No. Did he touch you? No. Does he ever play any games with you? No. Does he sit next to you? No. Does he ever hold your hand? No. Does he ask for a cuddle? No. I would then explain to my child that the boy was being silly and I will make sure i speak to the teacher about it.

No I mean in the schools I work in currently, so no times haven’t moved on as children will be children and do touch each other’s bums/genitals, simple as that. So yes they are classed as silly things that kids find funny.

He tried to pull OP's four years old son's shorts down and specifically said it was because he wanted to see if OP was a boy or a girl - by looking at his genitals.

The fact he was unsuccessful is lucky, but it doesn't change the fact that he attempted it, does it?

And it is illegal. Because technically sexual harassment and is explicitly described as such in guidance to schools and pupils.

It's important children feel able to tell grown ups when the pants rule has been broken. That's why it's taught in education settings across the UK. OP has done the right thing taking this seriously rather than shrugging it off.

A ten year old tried to pull her four year old son's shorts down, specifically to expose his genitals. It's bizarre you don't seem to grasp that the size, age and power disparity between them, and the fact they don't really know each other, means that this is nothing like a couple of older kids who are mates doing something that is an in joke / something they both find funny.

Her four year old was understandably upset and confused. Thank god some adults don't tell children they're silly to be upset and confused if a stranger double their age and size tries to pull their trousers down.

@wellhelloitsme who said I didn't grasp anything?

I never said this was ok

I never said this particular incident was teasing

I mentioned pantsing to people claiming 10 year olds would never do it to other 10 year olds and there must be a sexual element to this. Whereas that's clearly not true in all cases

Also as an FYI -

'Laws surrounding sexual harassment generally do not prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or minor isolated incidents'

This definitely counts as a minor isolated incident, therefore illegal this wouldn't be

@Greenleaf22

I asked you "Be honest - would you actually say to your four year old daughter, if she came to you upset and told you a ten year old boy had pulled her skirt down because he wanted to see if she had boy or girl privates, "it isn't anything to be worried about and he only did it once so it's a joke, not bullying"?"

And you said "Yes of corse I would" followed by some questions you'd ask, but you've said yes you would respond that way.

I hope it never happens to a son or daughter of yours then as dismissing upsetting behaviour that involves someone double their age pulling their pants down (which was the example I asked you about) is pretty vile.

It's scary you work in schools tbh.

@Mookie81 and you clearly don't understand sarcasm

The poster you jumped on was joking

As a PP said, your posts on various threads today are bizarre. Enjoy your evening 👍🏻

100% I would as it’s happen once not many times so it’s not bullying. You can’t protect kids for every situation and things will happen when they mix with other kids. It’s not “pretty vile” at all it’s inappropriate but it stops there there’s no sexual assault or harassment. I think you need to get your head out the clouds as the things kids know and do is scary tbh.

Would it just be a joke when the mother or father of the next little girl you've given him the green light to abuse gives him what he deserves?
(I.e. a good thumping, perhaps a cast, maybe a trip to the dentist. Suppose it depends how angry the are their daughter was violated by the little sicko...)

Call the police and call ofsted it all needs investigating. It doesn’t matter who said what and what this supervisor has to say even if it is her son don’t worry about that. Don’t send your son there anymore either. You need to be thinking the worst really what if he goes back and he is sexually assaulted next time. My son is the same age and I would be absolutely fuming I wouldn’t give a shit what any of the staff had to say I would be reporting it end of.

What would you hope the police would do? What would you hope ofsted would do? If she takes her son out and it happens again in another club (as its common), what then? What would you hope an investigation would do? If the children where supervise and there is CCTV proof where do you think the investigation would lead?

No I mean in the schools I work in currently, so no times haven’t moved on as children will be children and do touch each other’s bums/genitals, simple as that. So yes they are classed as silly things that kids find funny.

Wow, that’s extremely worrying @Greenleaf22
Well if OFSTED come calling and they talk to children about their school experience and it becomes apparent that touching each other inappropriately is apparently the norm - or they see that behaviour going on like it’s no big deal in the playground - you are going to have some serious problems.
I also suggest that if an inspector speaks to you personally and asks you about safeguarding procedures, which they can at random with any staff member - that maybe you don’t repeat the sort of thing you’ve said on here - you may well be out of a job. Maybe talk to your safeguarding lead for clarification when you are next at work, because I think you need to be more up to date with current procedures. You sound like a bit of a liability.
You might not think so, but I guarantee you again, times have very much moved on.

Yes of corse I would, I would ask has it happen before? No. Did he touch you? No. Does he ever play any games with you? No. Does he sit next to you? No. Does he ever hold your hand? No. Does he ask for a cuddle? No. I would then explain to my child that the boy was being silly and I will make sure i speak to the teacher about it.

Again@Greenleaf22 this reads like someone who has literally never had any kind of safeguarding training. I appreciate this is in relation to your own child - I hope this is not how you would respond if it was a child in your school.

@Greenleaf22
Investigate it ?! It’s called safeguarding. How do you know that child’s not been abused themselves and that’s why there trying to see another child’s genitals ? Ofsted would definitely look into it even if the police won’t. With children of them ages they should be supervised better.
If it happened again at another club I would repeat the process of reporting ?! Even if there is cctv it needs to be investigated and the child that’s trying to pull another’s trousers down needs to be spoken too to check they are safe ?