Page 7 | Girl tried to pull down my son’s shorts

dontwanttooverreact · 2022-08-05T13:10:01+00:00

My son is 4 and he went to a 3 hour camp at our sport’s club today. He had been yesterday with a school friend and today with the same friend. After pick up today he told us that a 10 year old girl had tried to pull down his pants and shorts “to see if he was a girl or a boy”. he is upset, this was his first experience of camp and he is quite shy. Additionally the school friend independently told her mother the exact same story so i believe it (I believed it anyway but you never know with 4 year olds and details. he told the supervisor who apparently said something to the girl but no one told us at pick up. AIBU to be furious? I had assumed initially the girl was also 4/5, but 10?!? Surely that’s not on? What, if anything, can I do? [Title edited by MNQ at poster's request]

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 05/08/2022 16:27

RoseslnTheHospital · 05/08/2022 16:26

What's with all this "it's just a practical joke, it's fiiiiine" business? No 10 year old should be pulling down anyone else's trousers for a shitty practical "joke", or for more worrying reasons.

And what's funny about this kind of "joke"? It's an attempt to humiliate, a pretty nasty bit of behaviour to minimise and excuse.

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I wasn't being serious

Summersnearlygone · 05/08/2022 16:28

This is not normal behaviour for an average 10 yr old and reporting it to the police would allow them to liaise with other agencies and see if there are underlying issues. The worst possible thing to do would be to ignore it and the organisers don't appear overly phased by it. The op cannot deal with it and cannot get the child or parents details. There are highly trained personnel within the police who can deal with this sensitively. I think I'd get advice from the NSPCC re how to deal with your son and the possible aftermath.

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 05/08/2022 16:30

If this happened to my son op I'd take it further. It's not normal for a 10 year old. Girl or boy.

Subeccoo · 05/08/2022 16:32

Safeguarding officer of a large sports club here.
I can't believe what I'm reading, the minimising going on.
Bants or not this needs dealing with by their designated safeguarding person.
At the minimum a conversation with the older child's parents needs to take place along with of course a conversation with the child.
It needs to be recorded on their safeguarding system which hopefully is modern enough that it links with school etc so that 5 years down the line if this child tries to do it again, there is clear evidence of dates and conversations.
Yes the police aren't going to arrest the child but it also wouldn't hurt to make it clear that this is unacceptable behaviour and the sports club need to get that message across loud and clear. It would be interesting to know what safeguard info they give to parents when you join, not a lot given you don't know who their dso is.
My face (sadly) is on every poster around our club. With my work mobile and email address and what to do if you can't get hold of me.
They need to do better and this kind of behaviour is never OK. It is bullying at best and potential sexual assault.

GreekGod · 05/08/2022 16:33

This kind of behaviour by a 10 year old child is completely unacceptable. The 10 year old would certainly not have done this to another 10 year old

A similar incident happened to my son at basketball practice over twelve years ago where it was a twelve year old boy and my son was five where the 12 year old for a joke pulled down his shorts for no reason (he was still wearing his under pants). My son broke down in tears in front of everyone. We reported it to the Police and the Police took it very seriously and a written complaint was filed and we were given a reference number at the time. The mother of the twelve year old contacted me and started shouting at me and telling me I was an idiot and overreacting by informing the Police so I just hung up on her and reported her to the Police also and a complaint was filed against her also. The basketball coach was also interviewed by the Police.

The OP is certainly not being unreasonable. I would take it as far as I could. And if it was my child who did the same thing to another younger child, I hoped that person would take it as far as they could against my child as that kind of behaviour is completely unacceptable.

blebbleb · 05/08/2022 16:35

GreekGod · 05/08/2022 16:33

This kind of behaviour by a 10 year old child is completely unacceptable. The 10 year old would certainly not have done this to another 10 year old

A similar incident happened to my son at basketball practice over twelve years ago where it was a twelve year old boy and my son was five where the 12 year old for a joke pulled down his shorts for no reason (he was still wearing his under pants). My son broke down in tears in front of everyone. We reported it to the Police and the Police took it very seriously and a written complaint was filed and we were given a reference number at the time. The mother of the twelve year old contacted me and started shouting at me and telling me I was an idiot and overreacting by informing the Police so I just hung up on her and reported her to the Police also and a complaint was filed against her also. The basketball coach was also interviewed by the Police.

The OP is certainly not being unreasonable. I would take it as far as I could. And if it was my child who did the same thing to another younger child, I hoped that person would take it as far as they could against my child as that kind of behaviour is completely unacceptable.

You handled it amazingly!

seaandsunn · 05/08/2022 16:37

Ohh your poor son

As others have said if it was a 10yo boy doing it to a girl everyone would be terrified.
Od even speak to the girls parents. To teach her to stay away from anyone's pants

Alfenstein · 05/08/2022 16:42

GreekGod · 05/08/2022 16:33

This kind of behaviour by a 10 year old child is completely unacceptable. The 10 year old would certainly not have done this to another 10 year old

A similar incident happened to my son at basketball practice over twelve years ago where it was a twelve year old boy and my son was five where the 12 year old for a joke pulled down his shorts for no reason (he was still wearing his under pants). My son broke down in tears in front of everyone. We reported it to the Police and the Police took it very seriously and a written complaint was filed and we were given a reference number at the time. The mother of the twelve year old contacted me and started shouting at me and telling me I was an idiot and overreacting by informing the Police so I just hung up on her and reported her to the Police also and a complaint was filed against her also. The basketball coach was also interviewed by the Police.

The OP is certainly not being unreasonable. I would take it as far as I could. And if it was my child who did the same thing to another younger child, I hoped that person would take it as far as they could against my child as that kind of behaviour is completely unacceptable.

Of course they would have

Ever heard of pantsing pranks when children of the same age (usually boys) find it hilarious to pull each others pants down at opportune moments?

Anactor · 05/08/2022 16:44

Alfenstein · 05/08/2022 15:53

@dontwanttooverreact

But your son isn't a girl

Based on the facts presented although the 10yo was wrong it's not akin to a random child pulling your kids trousers down to have a look

Your son said he was a girl, this other child thought he was lying, knows the way to tell if someone is a boy or a girl is based on what's between the legs and therefore went to prove one way or another

Which is amazingly scary.

A ten year old is old enough to realise you don’t pull down a small kid’s pants to check whether they’re a little boy or a little girl. That they may think this is an ok practical joke to play on a much younger child is ringing alarm bells.

Contact social services. Firstly the club isn’t doing proper safeguarding, secondly the child’s behaviour is concerning.

crowsfeet57 · 05/08/2022 16:45

What do you want from this? An apology given to your DS? To speak to the child yourself? The girl excluded temporarily or permanently?
Ultimately she tried but failed to pull the shorts down. Children do stupid things.

I'd want to know that someone was taking a long hard look to see if this girl is at risk. Because this is not normal behaviour for a 10 year old. If this is brushed under the carpet, then both children are being failed.

excellentday · 05/08/2022 16:50

I don't think you are unreasonable to escalate this at all.

Has it been confirmed the child in question was actually this ladies son? Or could it have been a girl who was, say 9, almost 10 and just said she was 10? I think identifying the child first is important. As your ds reported it at the time, they will definitely know who the child in question is.

I wouldn't let this drop. At the end of the day a much older child tried to totally humiliate your young son, by wanting to see if they were a boy or a girl by pulling down their underwear. I'd be asking that child why exactly.

I don't know of a single 10 year old that would just think it fine to yank someones pants down to check if they were a boy or a girl. Its actually quite disturbing that this childs first thought on checking was to expose the other childs genitals.

Its one thing if they do it as a prank (though not ok either, but kids are stupid sometimes) but this was intentional to actually have a look at his genitals.

You do expect to send a 4 yo to an activity day and have them humiliated like this.

excellentday · 05/08/2022 16:53

You do not, that should read.

TailSpinner · 05/08/2022 16:55

Based on the facts presented although the 10yo was wrong it's not akin to a random child pulling your kids trousers down to have a look

Your son said he was a girl, this other child thought he was lying, knows the way to tell if someone is a boy or a girl is based on what's between the legs and therefore went to prove one way or another

Holy fuck, did I read this correctly?? What is wrong with some people😨

LittleHeapOfBooks · 05/08/2022 16:55

10 is the age of criminal responsibility, so certainly old enough to know better. Report to police and they likely response is they'll just have a word with the camp & the girl.
Even if she wasn't 10, 4 is not too young to be a victim.

Alfenstein · 05/08/2022 16:57

TailSpinner · 05/08/2022 16:55

Based on the facts presented although the 10yo was wrong it's not akin to a random child pulling your kids trousers down to have a look

Your son said he was a girl, this other child thought he was lying, knows the way to tell if someone is a boy or a girl is based on what's between the legs and therefore went to prove one way or another

Holy fuck, did I read this correctly?? What is wrong with some people😨

It's called context

What the OP details is very different to what some posters are conflating this with

No one has said what this child did was ok

But there is a difference between someone pulling your child's pants down to get a look at their genitals for sexual reasons and a child doing it because someone claimed to be a girl when they're not, and thus the way to tell is between the legs.

Context is key, something many on MN really struggle with

LittleHeapOfBooks · 05/08/2022 17:03

Alfenstein · 05/08/2022 16:57

It's called context

What the OP details is very different to what some posters are conflating this with

No one has said what this child did was ok

But there is a difference between someone pulling your child's pants down to get a look at their genitals for sexual reasons and a child doing it because someone claimed to be a girl when they're not, and thus the way to tell is between the legs.

Context is key, something many on MN really struggle with

Show quote history

A 4 year old would know it's not okay to do this (& If they do it, it is because of power play/ pushing boundaries/ sign of abuse). A 10 year old certainly would know it isn't okay. By law, it is determined they easily do at 10 because it is the age of criminal responsibility.

Shoemadlady · 05/08/2022 17:04

I would be mortified if a 10 year old boy did this to my 4 year old DD and I'm sure that you rightfully feel the same. This is assault and at the very least the girls parents need to be aware. This is horrific behaviour and a 10 year old should know better.
I hope your son is ok x

girlfrien · 05/08/2022 17:06

Don't you have to have proof. The girl could just say she didn't do it.

Viviennemary · 05/08/2022 17:06

That is shocking. The incident should be reported to the police before another child is assaulted. The girl has reached the age of criminal responsibility. AFAIK this is the age of ten.

Alfenstein · 05/08/2022 17:08

girlfrien · 05/08/2022 17:06

Don't you have to have proof. The girl could just say she didn't do it.

Don't come at them with facts

The child has already changed his story to the OP so calling the police is pointless but still posters try

Anactor · 05/08/2022 17:09

“But there is a difference between someone pulling your child's pants down to get a look at their genitals for sexual reasons and a child doing it because someone claimed to be a girl when they're not, and thus the way to tell is between the legs.”

No, in safeguarding terms there is no difference, because a ten year old is old enough to know that you should not pull down the pants of a small child to check their sex.

The child who did that hasn’t got proper boundaries and it’s not the OPs job to figure out why. This needs escalating; either to the club’s safeguarding officer or to social services if the OP no longer trusts the club’s safeguarding system.

Alfenstein · 05/08/2022 17:10

Anactor · 05/08/2022 17:09

“But there is a difference between someone pulling your child's pants down to get a look at their genitals for sexual reasons and a child doing it because someone claimed to be a girl when they're not, and thus the way to tell is between the legs.”

No, in safeguarding terms there is no difference, because a ten year old is old enough to know that you should not pull down the pants of a small child to check their sex.

The child who did that hasn’t got proper boundaries and it’s not the OPs job to figure out why. This needs escalating; either to the club’s safeguarding officer or to social services if the OP no longer trusts the club’s safeguarding system.

There is a difference when looking at this as a crime though

Which is what many posters are trying to do

Maybe you can read the context of replies before quoting them

Anjo2011 · 05/08/2022 17:11

10 year olds know this isn’t something they should be doing under any circumstances . I would speak to the camp at first opportunity then make a formal complaint.

itsgettingweird · 05/08/2022 17:11

dontwanttooverreact · 05/08/2022 14:22

He was only there for 2 days so it won’t happen again to him but it just feels so totally unacceptable. He’s my eldest so I’m not that well versed in children above 4 but 10 feels very old for this sort of behaviour - I can’t help but feel If the roles were reversed and my son were 10 and the girl 4 and he had done this to her the reaction of the camp would have been different

Sadly it probably would.

But definitely officially complain about the safeguarding and state you should have been told because you were then faced with 2 4yo telling this story with no one to be able to confirm with or discuss it with.

NCNCNCN · 05/08/2022 17:13

I’m sorry that happened @dontwanttooverreact
I’d be frothing at the mouth