Page 10 | Girl tried to pull down my son’s shorts

dontwanttooverreact · 2022-08-05T13:10:01+00:00

My son is 4 and he went to a 3 hour camp at our sport’s club today. He had been yesterday with a school friend and today with the same friend. After pick up today he told us that a 10 year old girl had tried to pull down his pants and shorts “to see if he was a girl or a boy”. he is upset, this was his first experience of camp and he is quite shy. Additionally the school friend independently told her mother the exact same story so i believe it (I believed it anyway but you never know with 4 year olds and details. he told the supervisor who apparently said something to the girl but no one told us at pick up. AIBU to be furious? I had assumed initially the girl was also 4/5, but 10?!? Surely that’s not on? What, if anything, can I do? [Title edited by MNQ at poster's request]

Cr22345678990 · 05/08/2022 20:43

pepsirolla · Today 17:33
Just finished a safeguarding course. Everyone who has dealings with children or vulnerable adults must report if they see or are told of suspicious behaviour. It is important to trust your gut. It maybe nothing but that is up to the qualified people reported to to decide after investigating. It is important not to report it to the mother but the companies designated safeguarding lead. If one and the same then local authority one. Please report op. The boy may be at risk too and either way this inappropriate behaviour must be prevented from happening again

This!!! People on here are shocking and stupid.

wellhelloitsme · 05/08/2022 20:46

TailSpinner · 05/08/2022 20:25

Yes of corse I would, I would ask has it happen before? No. Did he touch you? No. Does he ever play any games with you? No. Does he sit next to you? No. Does he ever hold your hand? No. Does he ask for a cuddle? No. I would then explain to my child that the boy was being silly and I will make sure i speak to the teacher about it.

Again@Greenleaf22 this reads like someone who has literally never had any kind of safeguarding training. I appreciate this is in relation to your own child - I hope this is not how you would respond if it was a child in your school.

I can't believe they've had any safeguarding training even vaguely recently as what they've said goes so against even basic guidelines.

Greenleaf22 · 05/08/2022 20:55

TailSpinner · 05/08/2022 20:14

No I mean in the schools I work in currently, so no times haven’t moved on as children will be children and do touch each other’s bums/genitals, simple as that. So yes they are classed as silly things that kids find funny.

Wow, that’s extremely worrying @Greenleaf22
Well if OFSTED come calling and they talk to children about their school experience and it becomes apparent that touching each other inappropriately is apparently the norm - or they see that behaviour going on like it’s no big deal in the playground - you are going to have some serious problems.
I also suggest that if an inspector speaks to you personally and asks you about safeguarding procedures, which they can at random with any staff member - that maybe you don’t repeat the sort of thing you’ve said on here - you may well be out of a job. Maybe talk to your safeguarding lead for clarification when you are next at work, because I think you need to be more up to date with current procedures. You sound like a bit of a liability.
You might not think so, but I guarantee you again, times have very much moved on.

There isn’t any serious problems as it’s normal for children to do that, as long as it’s not targeted it’s not bullying nor harassment. I wouldn’t be out of a job as I don’t run the school and would have no problem saying what I have said to an inspector as that’s what happens. It’s very concerning you are suggesting I lie? The safeguarding lead gets everything reported to them in both schools but it’s still kids being kids. So no times haven’t moved on and I’m not at all a liability.

Greenleaf22 · 05/08/2022 21:01

Cr22345678990 · 05/08/2022 20:41

@Greenleaf22
Investigate it ?! It’s called safeguarding. How do you know that child’s not been abused themselves and that’s why there trying to see another child’s genitals ? Ofsted would definitely look into it even if the police won’t. With children of them ages they should be supervised better.
If it happened again at another club I would repeat the process of reporting ?! Even if there is cctv it needs to be investigated and the child that’s trying to pull another’s trousers down needs to be spoken too to check they are safe ?

Investigate it in what way? The mum knows what’s happened so where’s the investigation? Ofsted would look into what…? A child pulling another child’s trousers down, nothing else has happened? What would you suggest in supervising them better? As I said the minute they are left on their own for seconds things like this can happen so if would have to be an adult to every child. A child pulling another’s trousers down don’t say abuse to me as it would have to be continued behaviour but even if it was that’s a social services issue not police or ofsted.

Greenleaf22 · 05/08/2022 21:08

TailSpinner · 05/08/2022 20:14

No I mean in the schools I work in currently, so no times haven’t moved on as children will be children and do touch each other’s bums/genitals, simple as that. So yes they are classed as silly things that kids find funny.

Wow, that’s extremely worrying @Greenleaf22
Well if OFSTED come calling and they talk to children about their school experience and it becomes apparent that touching each other inappropriately is apparently the norm - or they see that behaviour going on like it’s no big deal in the playground - you are going to have some serious problems.
I also suggest that if an inspector speaks to you personally and asks you about safeguarding procedures, which they can at random with any staff member - that maybe you don’t repeat the sort of thing you’ve said on here - you may well be out of a job. Maybe talk to your safeguarding lead for clarification when you are next at work, because I think you need to be more up to date with current procedures. You sound like a bit of a liability.
You might not think so, but I guarantee you again, times have very much moved on.

Ofsted has been to both schools and children didn’t say touching each other inappropriate is the norm as it’s not something that’s made a fuss out of, both child’s parents get told what’s happened and the child that did whatever gets spoken too, that’s it. Nothing sexual gets mentioned no harassment, police have never been involved as it’s not that deep it’s just something kids do and you are making it into something it isn’t.

JustLyra · 05/08/2022 21:26

dontwanttooverreact · 05/08/2022 18:11

She has send me a very well worded email expressing apology etc and offering to speak to someone else and also apparently there is CCTV footage I can view.

the only thing I will say though is that, despite having mentioned her son being involved (and specifically saying my son probably misidentified him as a girl due to his hair) to me several times over the phone, he is not mentioned once in the email. Which I think is quite telling.

Tbh not mentioning the child by name in the email is quite normal - whilst in many cases your child could tell you “Peter smith did x” you’ll only ever hear “another child” in official communications from school or clubs.

I’d take her up on the offer to view the CCTV and ask them what their plans are to prevent that kind of incident happening again.

TBH having only two adults is really poor practise. One dealing with a fall/an upset kid/tying a lace etc and the other is trying to mind the rest. It’s also not good because if anything happens to one of the adults (worst injury I’ve dealt with in 20 years of working in schools and running a playscheme was one of the adults having a bad fall) then the other is both trying to deal with the incident and the other kids.

Anactor · 05/08/2022 22:00

Greenleaf22 · 05/08/2022 21:08

Ofsted has been to both schools and children didn’t say touching each other inappropriate is the norm as it’s not something that’s made a fuss out of, both child’s parents get told what’s happened and the child that did whatever gets spoken too, that’s it. Nothing sexual gets mentioned no harassment, police have never been involved as it’s not that deep it’s just something kids do and you are making it into something it isn’t.

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What you mean is that you don't know which children have been referred to social services because it's confidential and you don't need to know. And, judging by your posts, your knowledge of safeguarding is limited.

Hopefully you at least know who the safeguarding lead is for the schools you work at? And if you find any children touching each other's genitals 'because it's funny' you do think to mention it to the safeguarding lead?

If you do work in a school, you really should ask to update your safeguarding training.

Addicted2LuvIsland · 06/08/2022 01:14

Mookie81 · 05/08/2022 19:13

Would you say it's way too much to Jamie Bulger's mum?
10 years old is more than old enough to know that's massively wrong.

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To compare this to Jamie Bulger is ridiculous. Did anyone die? The kid didn't even manage to do anything. This, like your other comments are way too extreme. I don't even know why I am responding to such poop. Even if you tag me again I'm going to ignore you because I think you are joking or need professional help. Either way it's just weird.

Mookie81 · 06/08/2022 07:14

Addicted2LuvIsland · 06/08/2022 01:14

To compare this to Jamie Bulger is ridiculous. Did anyone die? The kid didn't even manage to do anything. This, like your other comments are way too extreme. I don't even know why I am responding to such poop. Even if you tag me again I'm going to ignore you because I think you are joking or need professional help. Either way it's just weird.

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Don't be ridiculous.
I'm not comparing the actions, I'm saying 10 year olds know what is right and wrong and appropriate and are held to that by the law. Therefore 10 year olds trying to pull down 4 year children's clothing to look at their genitals should be held to a higher consequence than 'they just curious/messing about'.

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 06/08/2022 07:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Another one who doesn't read full threads.

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 06/08/2022 07:51

FrippEnos · 05/08/2022 18:04

What will you be telling him and the school when somebody punches him for this "joke".

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I WASNT SERIOUS. Fucking hell fire does no one read threads on here?

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 06/08/2022 07:51

LittleHeapOfBooks · 05/08/2022 19:53

Would it just be a joke when the mother or father of the next little girl you've given him the green light to abuse gives him what he deserves?
(I.e. a good thumping, perhaps a cast, maybe a trip to the dentist. Suppose it depends how angry the are their daughter was violated by the little sicko...)

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Oh and another one 🙄

londonlass71 · 06/08/2022 08:09

Addicted2LuvIsland · 06/08/2022 01:14

To compare this to Jamie Bulger is ridiculous. Did anyone die? The kid didn't even manage to do anything. This, like your other comments are way too extreme. I don't even know why I am responding to such poop. Even if you tag me again I'm going to ignore you because I think you are joking or need professional help. Either way it's just weird.

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^This response. Nobody died or was tortured. I also feel like if a 10 year old REALLY wanted to pull a 4 year olds trousers down he could. Mookie81's other posts are equally fanatical and radical. This is clearly a person that goes way over the top with everything and would at best border on giving children an absolute complex if they did something completely innocently.
Yes 10 year old know right from wrong but this was jokes that got out of hand and no one was even touched. This situation is no where near the Bulger case, I'm pretty sure Jamie's mum would be insulted the 2 were even compared. Mookie clearly just wants shock value and attention. So sad

Original poster

dontwanttooverreact · 06/08/2022 09:17

I wasn’t going to comment again because I do think some of the comments on here have gone way too far but I just wanted to add that DS volunteered today that someone told him yesterday if he wanted to be a girl they would have to cut his willy off. Presumably this is all joking but it’s pretty unimpressive that this is the sort of shit that’s been discussed at a children's summer camp - certainly more supervision is required. I’ve responded to the supervisor’s email CC’ing in the relevant senior contact to let them know I don’t want to escalate this but I do think they need to have more staff and that they need to be a bit more aware of this - and that if it is this lady’s son she clearly needs to have a word re age appropriate behaviour.

OP posts:

Alfenstein · 06/08/2022 09:19

dontwanttooverreact · 06/08/2022 09:17

I wasn’t going to comment again because I do think some of the comments on here have gone way too far but I just wanted to add that DS volunteered today that someone told him yesterday if he wanted to be a girl they would have to cut his willy off. Presumably this is all joking but it’s pretty unimpressive that this is the sort of shit that’s been discussed at a children's summer camp - certainly more supervision is required. I’ve responded to the supervisor’s email CC’ing in the relevant senior contact to let them know I don’t want to escalate this but I do think they need to have more staff and that they need to be a bit more aware of this - and that if it is this lady’s son she clearly needs to have a word re age appropriate behaviour.

Now you're just being ridiculous

Children talk absolute nonsense 90% of the time

How are you going to cope when he is told Santa isn't real

Original poster

dontwanttooverreact · 06/08/2022 09:25

Alfenstein · 06/08/2022 09:19

Now you're just being ridiculous

Children talk absolute nonsense 90% of the time

How are you going to cope when he is told Santa isn't real

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I don’t think 10 year olds should be mixing socially with 4 year olds they don’t know if they aren’t going to be supervised enough to be directed away from discussing their genitals. I think that’s completely reasonable as an assertion and I can’t be bothered responding to you anymore as you’ve been, as several other posters have also noticed, quite odd in you responses here and it’s not helpful in the least.

OP posts:

Alfenstein · 06/08/2022 09:26

@dontwanttooverreact lord help when he starts school

There will be *gasp 11 year olds sharing the playground with him

One might even tell him how babies are made

Original poster

dontwanttooverreact · 06/08/2022 09:30

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 06/08/2022 07:51

I WASNT SERIOUS. Fucking hell fire does no one read threads on here?

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I realised you were joking/I think it was obvious

OP posts:

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 06/08/2022 09:34

dontwanttooverreact · 06/08/2022 09:30

I realised you were joking/I think it was obvious

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I thought so too!

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 06/08/2022 09:36

Alfenstein · 06/08/2022 09:26

@dontwanttooverreact lord help when he starts school

There will be *gasp 11 year olds sharing the playground with him

One might even tell him how babies are made

My kids school don't have 11 and 4 year olds sharing a playground. In fact nearly 30 years ago when I was at primary school there wasn't 11 and 4 year olds sharing a playground. I don't think there will be many schools at all that this happens

Bubblegum2022 · 06/08/2022 09:37

dontwanttooverreact · 06/08/2022 09:25

I don’t think 10 year olds should be mixing socially with 4 year olds they don’t know if they aren’t going to be supervised enough to be directed away from discussing their genitals. I think that’s completely reasonable as an assertion and I can’t be bothered responding to you anymore as you’ve been, as several other posters have also noticed, quite odd in you responses here and it’s not helpful in the least.

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I would then suggest you take him to another club where they don’t mix as mixed aged groups are allowed and older kids say things in-front of younger ones and nobody can do anything about it.

I would suggest for you all the you listen to a podcast 2 mr peas as it’s an insight as to what goes on in schools.
Theres a story I have just listen too of a teacher that was hungover and had to be taken to the medical room by 4 year 1s while they got her water and rubbed her back as she was being sick.

Bubblegum2022 · 06/08/2022 09:38

londonlass71 · 06/08/2022 08:09

^This response. Nobody died or was tortured. I also feel like if a 10 year old REALLY wanted to pull a 4 year olds trousers down he could. Mookie81's other posts are equally fanatical and radical. This is clearly a person that goes way over the top with everything and would at best border on giving children an absolute complex if they did something completely innocently.
Yes 10 year old know right from wrong but this was jokes that got out of hand and no one was even touched. This situation is no where near the Bulger case, I'm pretty sure Jamie's mum would be insulted the 2 were even compared. Mookie clearly just wants shock value and attention. So sad

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I agree, if it was going to happen it would of.

Original poster

dontwanttooverreact · 06/08/2022 09:38

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 06/08/2022 09:36

My kids school don't have 11 and 4 year olds sharing a playground. In fact nearly 30 years ago when I was at primary school there wasn't 11 and 4 year olds sharing a playground. I don't think there will be many schools at all that this happens

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No, quite. My son’s school has 4-6/7 in one building and playground and 7/8-11 in another. In fact 11-13 have their own playground area too.

probably because these age ranges don’t have similar interests and could make inappropriate comments and jokes to younger children 🤦🏻‍♀️

OP posts:

Original poster

dontwanttooverreact · 06/08/2022 09:44

Bubblegum2022 · 06/08/2022 09:37

I would then suggest you take him to another club where they don’t mix as mixed aged groups are allowed and older kids say things in-front of younger ones and nobody can do anything about it.

I would suggest for you all the you listen to a podcast 2 mr peas as it’s an insight as to what goes on in schools.
Theres a story I have just listen too of a teacher that was hungover and had to be taken to the medical room by 4 year 1s while they got her water and rubbed her back as she was being sick.

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I don’t agree with you about this. I think someone supervising would have seen/they were told about the short pulling attempt and they really should have heard the conversation and shut it down. They certainly should have told us, the parents about it.

but of course I wouldn’t send him back to this camp. I only sent him as his friend was going so I thought it would be a nice 3 hour activity for him! As I say it was our first experience of a camp and you live and you learn - next time I would know to check about the age ranges within the group.

OP posts:

Bubblegum2022 · 06/08/2022 09:46

Anactor · 05/08/2022 22:00

What you mean is that you don't know which children have been referred to social services because it's confidential and you don't need to know. And, judging by your posts, your knowledge of safeguarding is limited.

Hopefully you at least know who the safeguarding lead is for the schools you work at? And if you find any children touching each other's genitals 'because it's funny' you do think to mention it to the safeguarding lead?

If you do work in a school, you really should ask to update your safeguarding training.

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Why are you putting words into someone’s mouth? If you want to find out who has been referred to social services you ring the social and find out so it’s not really a secret. Safeguarding gets updated for everyone all the time so there’s nothing to ask about and you really shouldn’t be telling people what too do. Not sure what you thinks so special about a safeguarding lead? I know teachers that force children into a cuddle and the lead doesn’t do anything.