Is this normal wear and tear? Ukrainian hosting

[Isthisexpected]

Hosting a Ukrainian family. Difference of opinion between me and my husband. I feel our house is getting trashed because the mother is too hands off parenting and leaves us to tell her toddler "no". We have been clear about things such as no climbing on the furniture, child must be clean before leaving the dining room and no food in the lounge etc but I basically feel I have to be the parent. Sometimes the mum will stay upstairs letting the two year old run amok downstairs until I intervene.

My husband says it's wear and tear and part of opening up our home. Some examples:

Brand new books for our youngest, ripped.
Biro and felt tip on the walls and tables
Toaster left too close to gas hob and melted
Food stains on the new dining chairs because I am not there for every meal to keep saying "no the wooden ones are for you"
Wee on my new sofa (child climbed on and took nappy off)
Food stains (red Borscht) on lounge carpet as child wasn't clean before leaving dining room

Anyone else hosting children please comment....is this acceptable wear and tear? Yes - YABU.

It’s what you would expect from a toddler. But issues you raised is something to discuss with the mum you are hosting. Surely, she wouldn’t want you to feel this way, let alone you complain about it in public before you even discussed it between yourselves. Unless all you want is to get some public support before you ask the mum and the toddler to leave…

I hope the OP is happy that 100s of perfect mothers on MN have called her Ukrainian guest a shit lazy mother.

After all that's why she started this thread.

Exactly this.

Yes - with absolutely no thought or reference to what she and her child have been and are still
going through.

Just all those with perfect toddlers chiming in to say how their child would never have behaved like that. Come back when you’ve been forced out of your worn torn country, have left your husband there to fight, you’re in a strangers home with no support. Then you may understand why you might not have the energy to properly parent a toddler.

War torn

My child wouldn't have done the things you describe, but I wasn't a traumatised parent away from my family and support network....

@Delatron

but even so, what’s the answer?

Op can’t just be expected to replace and replace can she?

Presumably she hasn’t got an endless supply of money

Yes toddlers are like this. However mum is being lazy. This happens in my house when I’m ill and my child has not been fully supervised. You have opened up your home and in turn you are not asking much but a little respect. You are not there to babysit her child, she needs to be more responsible and keep a closer eye on the toddler. If something happens because she is off somewhere and you are not supervising, Then what? I don’t find you unreasonable. I lived with my parents for a short while and they would not have tolerated this from myself.

@LuckySantangelo35

No it’s not working. OP has been generous to offer out her home. But as many on here have said - are the general public equipped to cope with the mental and physical demands of traumatised families from Ukraine? It was an ill- thought out scheme from the government.

I have asked whether the OP has actually spoken to the mother to find out the reasons for this. Or has she just come on here to criticise the toddler’s behaviour?

To host I think you need the patience of a saint, be understanding and probably not too house proud…

I think the conversation needs to be had about what happens now as the arrangement is not working for either of them. But I would have empathy rather than just assume she’s a lazy mother who can’t be arsed.

Ukrainian parenting is much more hands-off than British parenting. Things that we'd consider wrong are commonplace, such as allowing a small child to wander the house alone (they're used to small apartments), leaving kids home alone and not really playing with/entertaining them much.

Ukrainians think British parenting is far too soft, that we don't allow our kids to make (and learn from) mistakes, and that we are all helicopter parents.

It's a cultural difference, and a shock to both hosts and guests alike. One thing to remember is that Ukrainian people are much blunter than us, so politely saying "I would prefer it if you didn't..." or "if you wouldn't mind..." are not a good way to communicate. You need to be absolutely up-front and clear about house rules, I.e. "You must not...".

Keep going, keep communicating!

This is actually lovely advice. I think we all forget about the cultural difference and how different parenting styles are going to clash. Germany has a very hands off approach to parenting too.

This is interesting and cultural / logistical stuff cuts both ways - so in this case a 2 year old not used to stairs in a house is at risk - so conversations need to be had.

I have a four year old and a baby and would say that the first three are definitely not wear and tear, food stains ones, yea to be expected

This is not "what 2 years old do" ffs. Badly parented ones maybe.

Thanks so much for the advice and opinions and especially to those who have posted knowledge of different cultures, communities and parenting styles.

Funnily enough the original rules were written like this "please try to X, we would appreciate it if you would Y" and obviously I don't know how well the translator worked but since arriving and the admission that they were not understood, we changed it to "you must X" and "do not Y". Still hasn't worked and some of you have helped me understand why. "You must watch A at all times" was too ambiguous and didn't say what for or what we expected. I thought it would be extremely patronising but at this point I'm thinking it needs to be as black and white as "You must watch A at all times and stop A from XYZ".

Go on some of the facebook groups solely for hosts. The number of negative posts are growing. Real nastiness and resentment. Sometimes I'm not sure if the posts are genuine as there's the ability to post anonymously and they just seem so extreme and outlandish. They invariably attract loads of support sadly and it definitely feels like the honeymoon is over.

OP, you’re extremely kind to host these people and I’m sure they appreciate and will never forget your kindness.

As a very solitary, quiet, childfree person this set-up would drive me crackers and I’d end up hiding from my guests. You have my genuine admiration and respect.

But…don’t be a mug! This is your home and the mother and kid should respect your space. How dare they make a mess? I can’t believe others are berating you- like, wtaf? They should abide by the way of the household.

Your house, your rules. If they don’t like that, quite frankly they can do one. 💐

You have a total Cheeky Fucker here OP. I'd get them rehomed by the council.

They're not a fucking puppy! These are human beings, who've been through a very traumatic experience already.

The toddler is just being a toddler, but it’s mother should be there overseeing it’s behaviour not leaving you to do the parenting for her.

I do have sympathy for how hard it must be OP, and having made the decision not to provide a home myself, I did not even try this.

However there is also something in what people are saying. I know this woman is an adult, but if you took on foster care for example, you would need to be aware that the child came with a certain amount of baggage and it could be difficult. I think that mind set needs to also come into play with taking in a refugee. This woman does come from a different culture, and you agreed to house her knowing this. That doesn’t mean that you just bend everything to her rules, but I do think that a bit of work on your part is expected to find some middle ground and tolerance.

She’s a human being, you are a human being, if I were you I’d get some help from somewhere in order to try to make this work. Even finding a crèche for the child perhaps or some kind of structure in the house that you both agree to. The damage to the house for me would be the least worry, and I’d personally let that go. However the supervision of the child and harmony within the household could be a priority that surely some kind of compromise could be reached?

I have a 2 year old and whilst I agree with the 'it's what 2 year olds do' comments it doesn't mean it should be allowed to happen in your house. I don't let my 2 yesr old draw on walls and leave food stairs everywhere because of basic things like not letting him get pens unless we're drawing together at the table and wiping him with a flannel after eating. These are basic things I'd expect from someone staying in my house with a toddler. I'm not saying my house is immaculate and he never does these things but I try really hard to not get our house trashed and your Ukrainian visitor should be too in my opinion

Some people don't have the same standards as others, especially when it's not their own property that is being trashed. Toddlers will always make some amount of mess, but you try your best to keep it under control. Having a toddler in the house doesn't mean everything has to be ripped, scribbled on, stained, etc.

I'd be annoyed that the mother isn't bothered.

Sorry off-topic but tell me more about your hand-held cleaner naomi81. Ut sounds exactly what I am looking for

It's amazing, for clearing up accidents, we use it on sofa too. We have the handheld hoover and blade as they all use the same battery, we have set them up to charge at night when the electric car charges so cheaper to run 👍 don't know how much it saves but it all helps.

www.vax.co.uk/onepwr-spotlessgo-cordless-spot-washer?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzcGbkfGx-QIVxe5RCh0cDg5FEAQYCCABEgJ3lPD_BwE