Is this normal wear and tear? Ukrainian hosting

[Isthisexpected]

Hosting a Ukrainian family. Difference of opinion between me and my husband. I feel our house is getting trashed because the mother is too hands off parenting and leaves us to tell her toddler "no". We have been clear about things such as no climbing on the furniture, child must be clean before leaving the dining room and no food in the lounge etc but I basically feel I have to be the parent. Sometimes the mum will stay upstairs letting the two year old run amok downstairs until I intervene.

My husband says it's wear and tear and part of opening up our home. Some examples:

Brand new books for our youngest, ripped.
Biro and felt tip on the walls and tables
Toaster left too close to gas hob and melted
Food stains on the new dining chairs because I am not there for every meal to keep saying "no the wooden ones are for you"
Wee on my new sofa (child climbed on and took nappy off)
Food stains (red Borscht) on lounge carpet as child wasn't clean before leaving dining room

Anyone else hosting children please comment....is this acceptable wear and tear? Yes - YABU.

YABU for putting a t on borsch. Stop it.

Why?
It's borscht, isn't it - according to all the restaurants that serve it, and online recipe sites?

I have a little kid and would echo what others have said that a lot of this is part and parcel of having a little person around.

However, it's also about having a house suitable for a kid. I would never live in a house with carpets - precisely because they get stained. I have furniture that is either metal or wood so harder to trash. I only have a leather sofa so things can be dropped.

My kids are still little so I still remember my pre-child life. I had nice things, really nice things and I will again...once my kids are teens. I also never realised that walls got dirty - why would they, but, of course, with a two year old, they are impossible to keep clean. Therefore, for now, my house is painted in cheap, washable paint that I can touch up all the time and I take a deep breath every time I serve my kids tomatoes.

Dont be that grandparent who says ah back in my day. On occasion, my parents say that and then I remember how in practice our house was a tip and nothing like the lovely surroundings they inhabit now ;-) For us parents it's a phase albeit a very messy one. For you, it's your home. Make a choice.

Yes, parents should be doing more. But it's not like they are visiting, it's very stressful trying to prevent a little kid from wrecking a house on a permanent basis. You can do it if you are a guest but they arent, they live there. You will either have to get used to it, make your home more child friendly i.e. less destructible in the first place or ask them to leave. In reality, while you can certainly ask the mother to keep a closer eye on the kid, I suspect it will never be good enough. Thats fine. You're past the toddler stage and dont have to want to go back there. But the reality is that is what it's like living with a toddler

Yes exactly that

Accidents happen but I wouldn't let my own dc trash my house, just no way

Where is the mum.

Just catching up. So the majority have voted yanbu and suggest this is what it's like living with an unsupervised toddler and I need to get onto the mum about supervision.

We are having a review tomorrow and will take on board the advice around being very clear. I will also be reiterating that significant damages must be paid for. At the moment we're still paying for all their food so couldn't ask for money as they don't have any. We haven't received the government payment ourselves yet but great idea to put some of that towards things like carpet cleaning and decorating any badly damaged walls. We suspect a lot of it will need to go on bills! Our guests are used to the heating being on all the time in Winter because it's provided by the council district heating system.

"Knuckle -draggers dive"... "frothing". ..

Fortunately you have arrived to positively model your own charming brand of tolerance

Good luck today.

Just keep calm and been clear what needs to be said on repeat. Short and sweet as no doubt you will need further resets and reviews along the way to ensure harmony in the house.

Also be clear what you don’t want to drift into saying….

@Isthisexpected How did you get on?

All the “omg I would never let my child do this!” judgemental people, just checking if you have experience of parenting a toddler whilst living in someone else’s property with strangers who are from a different culture and speak a different language. Were you forced to flee your home country due to war and did you find yourself with no option but to live in the home of complete strangers? If so, fair enough. If not, your situations are incomparable and your opinions are without consideration of the wider context.

OP, I appreciate you’ve done a kind gesture in facilitating refugees but posting on here was an error. People are posting their perspectives and most people have not been on the situation of your guests. It’s not hugely surprising to find people from different cultures have different parenting practices.

It went as well as could have I think. We took advice here and asked their opinions on various aspects and came to some agreements as well as being clear on what was not up for discussion (ie supervision of toddler). Thanks again everyone.

Well done.

I trust that you feel relieved now to have had the opportunity to review / reset house rules. That’s just normal a few weeks / months in as somethings were not anticipated and expectations were mis matched. Open non judgmental discussions seeking resolution are always the way forward.

I hope it works out for you - but make sure that you nip everything in the bud calmly and gently and repeatedly as that’s best for all of you.

It seems the attitude of the mother is off. Does she not care or is she struggling mentally? Whichever, it is a problem that needs a lot of discussion. It's not easy living with other people at the best of times. With a toddler and mother from a war torn country, and another culture much more complex.

There’s no “t” in borsch. The “sch” is pronounced as in “she”,with not even a hint of a “t” there. I would love know why at some point someone decided to add a “t”but it wouldn’t have been done by a Ukrainian or a russian person.

Russia and Ukraine are not the only countries which traditionally make borsch/borscht. The borscht spelling is Jewish, and for whatever reason, it's the spelling that has largely been adopted in both British and American English.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borscht

dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/borscht

Safe to say that in UK the standard spelling is with a t. The version without a t is a less common variant.

^ This
I had a leather sofa and wooden flooring. I would never, ever get fabric….
As a guest I’d be mortified if my child caused mess, but they’re living with you- it can’t really be avoided. A toddler can grab something and make off with it causing damage in no time.

Hi, I’ve joined just to let you know I hear you. We are also hosting a mother and child and the parenting is very hands off - the mum spends most of her time upstairs. Thankfully the child is 8 and generally pretty well behaved but it would be nice if I wasn’t the one always asking them to tidy up or policing disputes over toys between her and my kids. The mum has said that back home she would leave her home alone for the whole day so it’s all to do with a very different attitude to parenting and childhood and not to do with being traumatised or depressed. Also, I work with traumatised people every day - they aren’t allowed to just zone out from parenting. And the bedtime thing is the same here. No bedtime at all.

Wear and tear wise, our hob broke when we were on holiday which we do wonder whether it was due to the mum’s tendency to forget to turn it off.

overall it’s grand but we have a good amount of separate space and as I said the kid is older and pretty well behaved. She loves chatting to us though and really enjoys that we play with her/the kids sometimes which is not something her mum seems to do.

After 11 weeks of a three year old(some examples):
-pulling down curtains and snapping the wooden curtain pole
-stamping on toys and smashing them to pieces (daily)
-swinging on a toilet roll holder and bending the metal then snapping it off the wall, damaging the wall- pulling off plaster
-pulling threads out of a blanket and then pulling and pulling to make a massive hole,
-wiping food covered face over the back of settees
-drawing with felt tip on a rug
-smashing metal cars against the surface of our dining room table on repeat, daily
-being left to play outside by himself and when we returned home we found him in the garden with the door to the house closed
-left to run ahead on walk in the woods, so he disappears from view and when I say, "we need to catch him and hold his hand- there's a river through the woods", I'm told "ah, don't worry, he'll be fine"

AND:

• no bedtimes for 7 year old and 12 year old(before the holidays they fell asleep regularly in the car going to school)


• carrier bags of biscuits and chocolate being bought everyday and then children having no appetite for dinner


• no or limited parental engagement (mum or dad)with children- they entertain themselves


• children expected to look after their three year old sibling

I gave up trying to make suggestions to mum and dad and told them she (she's at home- dad has job) had to supervise the three year old and explained that that meant all of the time.

She said it would drive her crazy and that in Ukraine there is a different style of parenting which means that they just expect their children to keep quiet- this 'hands on stuff' isn't the norm . (I'm not sure whether I believe this or not- I think parenting styles vary enormously even within extended families, so I'm sure they do within a country). I told her that I was sorry she felt like that but it was a non-negotiable. I couldn't be in a position where our belongings have survived our own kids and several foster kids, yet within 3 months of their arrival there's destruction of personal belongings and furniture etc. I can live with toys being everywhere(in fact I would like to see toys everywhere), I can live with play dough and paint (at the kitchen table)- I cannot live with a lovely three year old being ignored and unsupervised for most of the day. She literally would engage with him at dinner times and when she's getting him dressed and that's it.

I won't ask the family to leave, and in many ways they're comfortable people. BUT this lack of supervision and my saying that she must supervise her child has led to a massive strop and a very annoyed mum- she seems happy to let him destroy our belongings and sees this as acceptable. It's not because 'he's a toddler' it's because no one is playing with him, talking to him and supervising him.

Thank you both for the most recent posts. My friends who came to visit at the weekend could see firsthand what I was talking about in terms of the difference in supervision....and that's when there has been a vast improvement overall.

Since I last posted there has been no more drawing on the walls. But the glass doors to the dining room (that withstood several children in the previous years) got cracked because the toddler was unsupervised in the room, shut the door and repeatedly banged something metal on the door. I could hear it happening from the bathroom and just knew when I got there the mum wouldn't be around.

They won't be staying with us beyond six months, purely because of how much damage they do. Some assumptions here that people have suggested justify the damage to our home also just aren't true. They know no one who has been injured. None of their friends or family are serving. They were not living anywhere near the front line and never had sirens going off. The mum of the toddler isn't here alone. She is most certainly not depressed. She just isn't an adequate supervisor by most Western standards It's that simple. Since I've made my peace with that I have been much more able to clearly reiterate the house rules with no fluff. Thanks again for the advice on here.

Since I've made my peace with that I have been much more able to clearly reiterate the house rules with no fluff.. Good for you!

So the mother's paying for repair of the cracked glass doors?

Glad you're making some progress OP. I've just read your posts and some of the responses. I voted YANBU. I was amazed at the number of posters who said the toddler behaviour was to be expected. As a mum of 2 I know accidents happen but all those incidents in just a few weeks?! You're being very understanding to continue hosting. My DH is Eastern European and they have very different parenting styles and just a different way of expressing themselves. He will say I'm too soft but I think he's too blunt! No matter who the conversation is with if he needs to get something sorted he very much tells it like it is. I consider it on the verge of being rude😂 I understand you comment totally about how children's bedtimes seem to be non existent. My SIL used to think nothing of being out and about past 9pm with her 2 year old. She even took her DC to a work evening out and saw no problem. Some people where quite shocked that she had her little one there past 10pm and some even made comments to her. My DC would have been in bed asleep by 7pm at that age. It came as a big shock when her DC started school and she had to establish some sort of bedtime routine after 4 years of not having one! One thing I have noticed about my DH and his family is they are very house proud and pride themselves on keeping everything clean and tidy. Almost to the point of obsession 😂

Our guest has told us that she began leaving her daughter home alone at 3 yrs old (for 15 mins at a time) and during the pandemic (so 6-7 yrs old) left her at home all day due to needing to work. We have made it clear that cannot happen here but she does just expect her daughter to slot into her plans - takes her along to her volunteering/meetings etc - and just quietly get on with it.

As I said, most of the time it is grand as the girl is well behaved and actually a lovely kid and we get on well enough with the mum, but there is definitely different expectations when it comes to what is expected of kids and parenting. And the mum clearly feels that the uk is too safety conscious (8 yr olds needing car seats for example and using seatbelts). I kind of see it as Ukraine being a few decades behind when it comes to safety (including supervision of young children…although also doubt my grandparents would have left small children completely unsupervised) but that’s just my views from living with one family so could be wrong.

If you wouldn’t accept it from your own children then don’t expect it from them.

@Cheeserton

all right bossy boots