Is this normal wear and tear? Ukrainian hosting

[Isthisexpected]

Hosting a Ukrainian family. Difference of opinion between me and my husband. I feel our house is getting trashed because the mother is too hands off parenting and leaves us to tell her toddler "no". We have been clear about things such as no climbing on the furniture, child must be clean before leaving the dining room and no food in the lounge etc but I basically feel I have to be the parent. Sometimes the mum will stay upstairs letting the two year old run amok downstairs until I intervene.

My husband says it's wear and tear and part of opening up our home. Some examples:

Brand new books for our youngest, ripped.
Biro and felt tip on the walls and tables
Toaster left too close to gas hob and melted
Food stains on the new dining chairs because I am not there for every meal to keep saying "no the wooden ones are for you"
Wee on my new sofa (child climbed on and took nappy off)
Food stains (red Borscht) on lounge carpet as child wasn't clean before leaving dining room

Anyone else hosting children please comment....is this acceptable wear and tear? Yes - YABU.

I can't believe the responses saying this is just what two-year-olds do. That's why parents/carers need to watch them properly, which clearly isn't happening in this instance. I think it's appalling that someone would allow their child to destroy things like this in someone else's home.

I've seen this article too and yes, they don't have bedtimes for their kids!

www.thethings.com/20-parenting-styles-wed-only-see-from-a-russian-mom/

4 children to adulthood ,here .2 with AsD ..never had any of this destructive behaviour because I watched them properly..mother is letting u do her job

These are the normal consequences of an unsupervised toddler.

They may or may not be acceptable to different people (parent / host) depending on their personal expectations and preferences.

Some people are clean freaks, some people are slobs - most of us are somewhere in the middle.

The toddler may be unsupervised because:

the DM is dissociated by trauma

the DM is lazy

the DM has a different parenting style / housekeeping standard

the DM is leaving her child unattended due to cultural norms where the expectation is other adults in the vicinity pick up supervision.

Or it could be a mix of all three.

It’s your home and only you know what level of consequences of an unsupervised toddler are tolerable to you and your household.

It seems there is a gulf in communication and mis match in expectations.

You need to calmly, gently and assertively and repeatedly tell the DM what your expectations are. Look in the first instance to resolve this tension by communication even if you know that this isn’t a sustainable long term arrangement for you.

You need to look out for trauma and if she is unwell then she and her DC need professional support - that’s not something you can shoulder - it would be unethical to do so - and maybe they need a different environment.

You have provided an open, generous, safe haven. If you can’t meet their needs (trauma) and the child is a safeguarding risk (unsupervised) then this needs escalating.

If it’s lack of clarification, issues on expectations then this can be worked on if that’s what you want.

Don’t get too hung up on the 6month commitment. That’s just the government saving UC rent money - if they have been with you a couple of months it might be better for them to find a long term solution sooner rather than later.

Many arrived maybe expected they would be returning home at the end of the summer. That’s not going to happen. I suspect many will now need to look at settling for the next 12 months - and I know the government will be looking at ways for hosts to extend the 6 months.

Its interesting that your DH doesn’t see the issue as you do. But that doesn’t invalidate your experience and is only likely to frustrate you further.

I am in a similar situation with respect to my DH - but he isn’t the sole contact 24/7 for all the guests issues, he is out of the house 12 hours a day at work and on hobbies - so I bear the brunt.

I took it upon myself to have an assertive and clear conversation which made me feel a lot better and improved our relationship because I was becoming resentful and contemptuous.

So my advice is to communicate - little and often - calmly, gently and assertively.

It’s tough.

I agree with the posters that have said it’s an I’ll thought our scheme but something had to happen quickly for these people and sometimes expediency is crucial. There are problems and they will balloon at the end of the six month period but it’s better than leaving them in a war zone and spending months or years figuring out how to help.

Hosts should be recognised for the altruism of their actions. It's not unreasonable to have some expectations of behaviour and conduct. Sadly the lack of infrastructure and support mans that lots of placements are failing. And honestly how many posters guilt tripping the OP are actually hosting themselves?

This.

I think people are doing a bit of looking back without thinking it through.

My dc have drawn on walls, ripped books, wee-d after taking their nappy off, sat on the wrong chair and then had chocolate etc.

But that's over 3 dc and many years. For example both dd1 and dd2 drew on walls as a toddler (dd1 did it once just after dd2 was born during a midwife visit, and dd2 signed her name - then blamed ds, she then added his name to give verisimilitude, him being 2 months old at the time she couldn't see why I didn't believe her ) and ds was a bit different because we were having an extension put in, so we let him draw on the wall we were going to demolish. He never did it anywhere else except the back of a cupboard I found about 5 years later!

But this is all of this in, what is it, 3 months? Less than 6 anyway. Even non-house-proud me would be getting stressed at this. It's not just the doing, it's the wondering what is coming next.

And also when my dc did it, then I was the one cleaning it up. (normally with them helping, which was meant to discourage them from doing it, but at that age it just added to their fun-unfortunately now they're teens they don't think it's fun) It's very different when you end up having to clear it up when it's not your kid.

OP: You're the one on the ground here. You know how good her English is to discuss it, you know how she reacts to you talking. What I think I'd do is have some discussion about watching the dc etc. I might say I'll have the dc say 1 afternoon a week for her to do English lessons, go out with friends or something, but the rest of the time it's her responsibility.
But at the same time I'd make precautions. Like you did changing the chairs, make sure pans are not left at his height, anything precious goes high, get a mat to go under his chair etc.

why do people keep falling for these daily mail-esque , blatant foreigner frothing threads?
It's either foreigners, gay people, or people 'grieving' in the wrong way.
This place has become a knuckle-draggers dive.
Intolerance is the flavour of the UK isn't it? Let's vote tory!

What was her reaction to the toaster, stains etc? Do they go out to any toddler or refugee support groups? There seems a clear mismatch of expectations but that should not mean disrespecting your property or abdicating supervision of a young child.

All those saying ‘that’s just what toddlers do” “kids wreck stuff”

and? So? So is op just expected to suck it up then?! Just keep buying stuff to replace what’s been trashed. Why the fuck should she?

the child’s parent needs to step up and parent responsibly to avoid such damage

end of

and as for renting them a room somewhere…wow! Some people on mumsnet really are made of money

Not every toddler acts this way. They do what they get away with.

No way would my toddler have been allowed to rip books or scribble on walls.

What is normal parenting after fleeing a war torn country and leaving behind your husband? Huge lack of empathy on here.

I would not have been able to have a refugee family in my house for 6 months because I’m not the relaxed, chilled type. You would need to be very patient, relaxed and understanding. Not questioning wear and bloody tear.

The ‘oh well my toddler never drew on walls’ brigade. Have you ever been in this situation? If not, who cares about your well behaved toddler. It’s irrelevant.

@Putonyourshoes

who wouldn’t be bothered by scribbles on the walls?!

Honestly!

Are there people out there who really don’t care if their walls get scribbled on?!

I've spent some time in Eastern Europe. I suspect you're unwittingly enabling this. You need to TELL her. We pussy foot around things trying to be polite in the UK.

I can't spread for Ukraine but lots of European countries take a 'it takes a village' approach to parenting- it's not unusual for adults to admonish other people's children if they are doing something wrong.

I think this is unfair.

The OP has done more than 99.9% of the people in this country regardless of how they vote.

She is finding it difficult and is unsupported - there’s no shame in that.

She is looking for guidance here.

I hope she finds it.

She deserves it - and if she is supported and is able to re-set expectations the dynamic for both families will improve.

Yes children do these things.

However mum should be in the same room as toddler. You're not hosting an ordinary family though. She's probably in shock.

Yes they can rent a room through the UC system. Doesn’t have to cost the OP a penny. They will have to do this in 3 months time (an be looking for one in 1 months time) anyway as the 6 month commitment is up.

This does sound annoying, however I’m not sure what you can do, it’s very hard to change someone else’s parenting and standards. Look at all the married couples who cannot change their husband/wife!

This is the main reason that I didn’t take in a Ukrainian family. I’m just too structured in my parenting and have a SN child, and you can’t really vet by saying ‘have to have the same parenting framework as me’! I would especially not want to be filling in the gaps of what I perceive is someone not parenting, and therefore there would be tension. I agonised over the decision tbh and felt bad. So I do hand it to you, you took the plunge and did it.

The only thing you could do is sit down and work out some general ground rules. Like the 2 year old never being in a room on their own without the mother - which I think is fair - if she needs to shower or whatever you can then say OK I’ll look after them but a 2 year old shouldn’t be left on their own in another floor of the house.

Likewise. My children were not allowed to behave Like that.

The parents need to supervise their two year old

No? They’re 2. Obviously I wouldn’t be happy, and I certainly wouldn’t encourage it, but that wouldn’t be upsetting to me. You’d just make a conscious effort to not let it happen again.

@LuckySantangelo35
No? They’re 2. Obviously I wouldn’t be happy, and I certainly wouldn’t encourage it, but that wouldn’t be upsetting to me. You’d just make a conscious effort to not let it happen again.

My ds never did any of these things. I do know other kids do this though. For that reason I wouldn't ever host people with small kids. It unsettles and irritates me with what is actually normal toddler behavior. The mother has no respect though, trash your own home if you want but don't let your child do that to someone else's home.

I think it's completely unacceptable. I have toddler and I watch her like a hawk, so she doesn't do these things. She's just not allowed / gets moves away / gets cleaned up before she gets the chance to do damage with dirty hands etc.

The mum needs to control this child better. I find it completely unacceptable.

The lack of supervision does not just have consequences for mess - it is a safeguarding issue.

That toddler could have a serious accident in your home when left unattended.