Did DD deserve to be told off??

[PillowFeather]

My sister came around earlier. DD (9) was being quite animated dancing around in the living room. I went to make a cup of coffee and just as I walked back into the room I heard my sister say “don’t come clarting around me!”. DD stopped dancing, gave a nervous laugh then retreated upstairs to her room. I shouted up that I’d made her a drink and got no reply so I went up to find her crying. I asked what was wrong and she shouted at me to go away.

I went back downstairs and asked my sister what had happened and she said “she was doing that stupid dance around me and I can’t be arsed with it, she needs to grow up”.

DD is quite immature for her age and it doesn’t help that my niece (sisters DD) is the same age but mature for her age. Niece is spending the holidays hanging out with friends whereas DD doesn’t have any friends 😞

I can’t get it out of my head, I think DD was embarrassed and I don’t think she deserved to be told off?! Or am I being soft?

When the baby voice is used she should say I can't hear you if you talk like that, when she is overly sensitive to any form of pushback she needs to calmly be told that aunty wasn't telling her off, but her dancing was getting too much and too close.

Sorry but that horrible advice. It’s cruel to give a child the silent treatment by refusing to acknowledge you can hear and understand them until they speak in a certain way to you. I could never do that to my child. My parents did that to me. It’s no different from tone policing really…insisting that something be said in a certain perfect way to be acknowledged.

And on the dancing, that would be lying to blame my child as well as gaslighting about the aunts behaviour. The aunt did tell her off, there is no way “don’t come clarting around me!” Could be interpreted in any way other than an abrupt demand to cease and desist immediately, and preferably get out the room. So why should I lie to the child and defend her aunt by saying “oh she wasn’t telling you off, you are being too sensitive and it’s your fault anyway”

The dancing wasn’t getting too much or too close, the sister said she told her off because she thought it was a “stupid dance” and she “couldn’t be arsed” to have it going on around her and said “she needs to grow up”.

9 is very very young, it’s absolutely fine if she was dancing - your sister wouldn’t speak to you that way I presume so why is it ok to speak to your child that way? Or anyone for that matter? The fact that she’s irritating doesn’t warrant aggressive, mean behaviour. If she didn’t like it she just had to say it nicely. The same thing we encourage kids to do funnily enough.

Have you tried sending her to gymnastics, dance or theatre/acting classes?

Seems like she might enjoy it more than martial arts

I’d approach this is a similar way. I think this is good advice.

We’ve recently made some new friends and the 13year old girl was talking in a baby voice at random times, on purpose. It was really confusing. I assumed I’d misheard (although it was quite a number of times) and asked DC when we went home. They confirmed it but didn’t seem bothered by it, in the slightest. They’ve just accepted that as something the girl does.

I think your sister was harsh, all children have different personalities and really at the age of 9 it's okay to still dancing round the living room. Would your sister be happier if your dd was sat watching a screen or addicted to an ipad.

Sorry but that horrible advice. It’s cruel to give a child the silent treatment by refusing to acknowledge you can hear and understand them until they speak in a certain way to you.

Utter piffle. We advise people all the time on here when, say, their child says something like "hey you cunt get me a bacon roll you fucker" to say that they can't hear them until they speak with respect. Or when they are shouting that they should use an "inside voice" and so on. It is equally ok when baby talk comes out to say "i can't understand baby talk speak properly"

To PP with "doesn't sound like the DD was flapping arms in the aunt's face" the OP wasn't even there, let alone you, give it a rest.

An exasperated plea not to dance near the aunt is neither telling off nor banishing the child to the wild reaches of her room. Something i have said to my own DCs, their friends and their cousins on occasion. Even to strange children flapping around on a train near my face. At no point am i being unreasonable there.

also, maybe you should send her to ballet classes. I was in the army and i can assure you that my DCs ballet teacher was stricter and firmer (and kinder) than any Sgt Major i ever encountered. Discipline is demanded and anyone who doesn't comply is told one more time to behave, then they sit the class out. If that happens twice their parents are refunded for the rest of the season and asked to seek out another ballet class.

I've never asserted that children with lots of friends don't end up in a PRU

No? But you did say:
The ones with no friends tend to go one of two ways down the destructive route ending up in a PRU or expelled, or severe introversion leading to considerable mental health struggles, suicide attempts or school refusal

So it follows that if the ones with no friends do often end up in PRU because they have no friends, then the ones with lots of friends don’t end up in PRU. Otherwise why would you make such a cause-effect statement like you did? No friends= PRU can only be a true statement if friends= no PRU.

Proving again you struggle with reading it seems

This is really sad to read. There is nothing childish about what your dd suggested here. That’s normal play for her age I would say. So you just let her cousin speak to her like that and then she went off to play on her own?

if that was my child I would have said something to my niece and then said “come on dd, I think that sounds like fun I’ll play that with you” how you could just let her sadly walk off and play on her own after being put down by your niece is beyond me!!!

I think you need to be way more supportive if I’m honest. I feel so sorry for your dd. Sounds like she needs a big hug. Love her for who she is, not what society or your dad or your sister or niece think she should be.

Yep and I'm still asking why the aunt wasn't allowed to say something. Parents may think their kids behaviour is cute, doesn't mean everyone else will.

So having a bit of a baby voice is equivalent to “hey you cunt give me a bacon roll you fucker” ?! Really?

So if a child said, “mum please may I have some toilet paper, there isn’t any in the loo” in a higher pitched voice than you think they should talk in and that’s equivalent to:
“Cunt, get me some fucking toilet paper.”

and deserves the same reaction? No sorry, it’s tone policing, you’re attacking the tone of voice rather than what was being said and it’s wrong. Especially since children with baby voices usually are doing it without realising because they are nervous or excited and have low self confidence. It’s wrong to demand perfect tone when they’re already saying the correct words.

You clearly have no regard for children if you think what aunt said was a “plea” it was a rude demand and most definitely a telling off. Imagine if the child adopted what you advise and said to the aunt “sorry I can’t hear you unless you ask nicely” and ignored her. She’d be much more within her rights than adults ignoring her for speaking in a higher tone of voice.

Your daughter sounds like my kind of people 💞. I do think your sister was unreasonable, if she wanted space and asked respectfully for it then absolutely fine. However, the way she spoke to her, given the context you have provided, makes me think there is judgement there. I think your DD very much understood and sensed your sisters judgement and my heart hurts for her. I would imagine her dancing was also showing that she was excited to see your sister, so probably was a bit of a double blow for her, poor poppet.

This is personally something I would bring up with my sister. Because for me it would create a lot of resentment and staying silent only makes it worse - which isn't good for anyone. I'd always have my DD's back over anyone else (certainly when it comes to matters of people being unreasonable) and I would want to make that known to both DD and Sister.

I would also focus on talking to my DD and and I would explain that your sister probably wanted a bit of space and that she didn't go about asking her in a nice way and explore your DDs feelings around it. Also, assuming that your sister might have dampened her spirit a bit, I would go and do something fun and silly with DD and just get on her level - remind her it's okay to be herself and let go.

Children can't win. We all say they grow up too fast, but then judge a 9 year old for dancing and acting like a child (because she is one).

You're really proving my point tbh.

The poster I was responding too was talking specifically about children with no friends. Hence my response on that point.

Do you include all options when responding to specific questions about a specific type of person or child?

If I say men who come out of 15 year prison terms often suffer with depression it doesn't mean men who have never been in prison don't suffer with depression.

That particular poster claimed children with no friends usually end up better off in the end. This is simply false. Children who have no friends often have reasons for that, most of which will have additional needs, those children without support usually do not end up on top after leaving school.

It's not cruel

It's how many children will learn to understand that their baby voice isn't ok and learn to identify when they are using it

You clearly have very little experience with children who act like this.

Therapeutic parenting is well recommended especially for those with additional needs for a reason, those reasons are backed up with many studies if you wish to understand more you can always do some research.

It's the adopted method for parenting children in care in the UK and very heavily advocated for during adoption, in fact most local authorities make sure to test prospective adopters on how much they understand about TP before they're passed through to panel.

But no, the lady who has proven she can't read on MN is right of course

She didn't deserve it. My husband was being told off for every single thing, his parents made him embarrassed in front of family and he became really quiet child, in a negative sense. If she's your guest, she knows your daughter will be there. She's only 9 years old girl, not 17.

Op the bottom line is that you are not doing your dd any favors by indulging her. She may be sensitive but she also needs to adjust to the world around her. Look at the current situation and think for yourself if it's working. She stomps off crying and you indulge her instead of telling her to reign it in. She has no friends, her family find her annoying and that is the world around her. All good and well for posters to say everyone else is the arsehole and your dd should carry on as is, but where does that leave her? She is the one missing out and isolated. No one says to stop dancing, just learn not to do it in someone's face. And she needs to stop that baby voice. 9yo girls are going to find that irritating too.

So having a bit of a baby voice is equivalent to “hey you cunt give me a bacon roll you fucker” ?! Really?

Did i say that? No i didn't. I said that when people are speaking in a stupid, rude, or silly way the advice is to get children to behave in an age appropriate way.
"mum can you get me some toilet paper?" don't be daft - I'd get it. And then the family would be having YET ANOTHER discussion about why the last person who put the loo roll on the holder didn't put the spare next to it. Besides the point.

"tone policing" - you know what? This is one reason why people are so rude to people these days. Because their parents don't bring them up to speak properly.

Speaking in a baby voice while playing? fine no issue, we've all done it. Being rude to people and swearing - well i daresay we've all done it. It's not really appropriate though is it and as parents we should be teaching our children to be part of society.

But you do you. I'

Given your dd is labelled immature/babyish, I’d be happy that she was freely and confidently dancing around her own home in front of her aunt.
But she has now been thwarted in expressing herself this way by your dsis and she has had her confidence knocked back even more. That’s harsh ans shouldn’t have happened.
i think your family need to be reminded that kindness and encouragement and acceptance is key in helping your dd build her confidence. And that ‘maturity’ progresses at different times for different children. I would be doing all I could to show your dd how precious and wonderful she is, just as she is.

Yes the poster said that many children with no friends in primary school often go on to make friends in secondary and have a good outcomes. Which is what you attacked as false, by saying that children with no friends always have worse outcomes than children with friends.

I don’t have time to post everything you said, but you clearly stated in your counter argument that children with lots of friends have better outcomes than those with no friends, one of those being children with no friends end up in PRUs. It was in that context you said it. And if it’s true, then it means that the obverse must also be true, that children with friends don’t end up in PRUs as often as children with no friends.

You men prison depression example is a red herring. That’s not the logic tree you were using.

Sounds like my niece and she annoys the shit out of me. Last time she was here she started bouncing around on my pregnancy ball. I would never have dared as a kid to charge into someones house & start mucking about with their things. I think it’s very cheeky.

You did say it
”We advise people all the time on here when, say, their child says something like "hey you cunt get me a bacon roll you fucker" to say that they can't hear them until they speak with respect. Or when they are shouting that they should use an "inside voice" and so on. It is equally ok when baby talk comes out to say "i can't understand baby talk speak properly"

If child says hey cunt get me a bacon roll you fucker, the advised response is “can’t hear you”. And it is equally ok If child says in a baby voice anything, the advised response is “I can’t understand you”.

I can’t hear you/I can’t understand you (when you can actually but are making a point) are in fact equivalent responses.

They're examples of people speaking in a way that isn't - at that particular point in time - not acceptable.

Like other's l have mixed views.

DD dancing around ... l would find it very annoying especially if it interrupting my visit... but it is her home...

DD crying over being asked to stop. Overreaction and she needs some resilience skills taught.

Why did she only last one session at the group? What else was she told off for in her martial arts lessons?

Your dad......if she knows she's doing the baby voice then him asking her why she's doing it isn't being horrible....he's just trying to figure out why she's making herself sound and appear so ridiculous.

Agree it's not nice her cousins laughing at her but equally if she is doing it on purpose then what can she expect.

No friends - why not?

Park situation. I feel she was behaving age appropriate by wanting to play and cousin wasn't. I'd be irritated by the cousin sitting with me as it changes the whole dynamics and conversation Her mother should have told her to go away.

Your sister is an arse.

Your DD is nine, a kid and she was dancing around in her own house. If your sister didn't like it, she could have left.

Couldn't agree more with this. I was shocked to read that this was considered 'babyish' behaviour and the OP showed that she agreed with this by allowing her daughter to go off and play alone and not saying anything to her niece. I would have done exactly the same - gave the niece a good talking to and then gone and played the imaginative game with my daughter. As a parent you need to be your daughter's safety blanket and not contribute to what is effectively bullying behaviour by her cousin.

I have to say that as a teacher I see this all the time - most parents don't work with children and so their only knowledge of child development is from their own children. Some then make assumptions/have expectations about what children should be like at certain ages based on inaccurate memories of their own childhoods or brief observations of other people's children, and come to the conclusion that their child isn't normal or behaving as they 'should' for their age based on very limited experience. They then place expectations on their child and try to limit/amend behaviours that are in fact perfectly normal for that child's age range, forcing them to mature more quickly in order to meet the false expectation they have set. The amount of parents I've had crying on me because their DD/DS isn't 'normal' and for me to then reassure them that they really, really are is more than I could even begin to count.

Please, OP, let your DD be herself. And don't let anyone else tell her she is childish or shouldn't be behaving in the way she should. I do think she could potentially have ADHD, but that is a separate issue to the quite toxic and negative environment you and your family have built around your daughter's play preferences. You need to stop this now and as you will be doing enormous damage to her self esteem and confidence.