Did DD deserve to be told off??

[PillowFeather]

My sister came around earlier. DD (9) was being quite animated dancing around in the living room. I went to make a cup of coffee and just as I walked back into the room I heard my sister say “don’t come clarting around me!”. DD stopped dancing, gave a nervous laugh then retreated upstairs to her room. I shouted up that I’d made her a drink and got no reply so I went up to find her crying. I asked what was wrong and she shouted at me to go away.

I went back downstairs and asked my sister what had happened and she said “she was doing that stupid dance around me and I can’t be arsed with it, she needs to grow up”.

DD is quite immature for her age and it doesn’t help that my niece (sisters DD) is the same age but mature for her age. Niece is spending the holidays hanging out with friends whereas DD doesn’t have any friends 😞

I can’t get it out of my head, I think DD was embarrassed and I don’t think she deserved to be told off?! Or am I being soft?

It’s not about girls - I wouldn’t allow my sons to dance round the living room in an ‘animated’ fashion when I was trying to have a guest over.

A sister isn't a guest & can surely muck in with the energy & silliness of family life.

100% agree with you! One I love a good dance, the sister must be super uptight not to have joined in and two if you do find it annoying and she’s low in confidence redirection would be better. “Why dont you show me your puzzle / new book / lets have a cuddle”

also I'm baffled by pp saying "she should be allowed to dance in her own living room"

Where in “don’t come clarting around me!” is she being banished from the room?

It’s not about girls - I wouldn’t allow my sons to dance round the living room in an ‘animated’ fashion when I was trying to have a guest over.

it’s not just about you is it?

You've "no idea why", & it hasn't occurred to you to find out?

It's your fucking job to find out OP.
Especially as her dad's a dick to her, as well as her aunt. Sounds to me like she has a history of being picked on by her own close relatives for not being conformist enough for them. No wonder she puts on a silly voice, poor kid.

Apologies - her grandad, not her dad, I misread.

Then surely she can ‘muck in’ with the family life of telling a kid not to dance round her? Which is what happened here.

Then surely she can ‘muck in’ with the family life of telling a kid not to dance round her? Which is what happened here.

If it was good natured and with love then yes, but it doesn’t sound like it. Instead the family seem constantly critical of the OP’s child which is not okay and this is just one example of.

Why is it unkind to ask a child to stop dancing close to you?

Ffs.. she is 9 ! And happily dancing in her own house with her mums sister there... she's not prancing about in front of the vicar or in a restaurant... she was relaxed and happy..when it sounds like she is often insecure and worried... poor kid. That just teaches her she is wrong to be comfortable being her. Maybe she isn't NT, maybe she will get to the level of maturity later than her cousins... she's not 17 and doing it is she ?? My kids are ND.. no one would know, they just look immature and annoying too. On average they are about 3 years behind in maturity .. not every kid needs a label as they are fine, and will get there in there own time, so long as they aren't ridiculed and shamed by people who are supposed to love them.

I haven't RTFT, primarily @PillowFeather's posts and some of the responses, but I feel really sorry for this little girl. I think her confidence needs building up and she needs encouragement and positivity, not passive-aggressive questioning from grown adults and unfavourable comparisons with her cousins.

She's only 9, she's still developing and finding her way in the world. The adults in her life need to be kinder and more tolerant.

Two questions:

1. what is childish about imagination & story-telling?
2. What did you say to your rude niece when she she was mean to your DD?

Poor thing. I’d be mortified now if I was being jolly and someone I trusted said that. Similarly in front of cousins, ouch!
it’s like every time she is trying to be herself someone shoots her down, no wonder she is shy and has no friends.
there’s much nicer ways of getting someone to calm down. I think what your sis said was demeaning and rude.
simi stuff happened to ds, eg finally got him out to a running club and his dad went on about he had to wear proper shoes or he couldn’t go as he’d look like the poor kid. ( ?) organisers were just pleased he’d gone, he strangely got tummy ache next time. Now won’t go out at all.

It’s plain to me that the DD wasn’t dancing too close to her aunt, her aunt simply did not want her dancing in the same room (despite the fact the DD had been in the living room dancing when the aunt arrived) and given her obvious dislike of the child said it in such a way so as to purposely get the DD to leave the room.

”I went to make a cup of coffee and just as I walked back into the room I heard my sister say “don’t come clarting around me!”. DD stopped dancing, gave a nervous laugh then retreated upstairs to her room. I shouted up that I’d made her a drink and got no reply so I went up to find her crying. I asked what was wrong and she shouted at me to go away. I went back downstairs and asked my sister what had happened and she said “she was doing that stupid dance around me and I can’t be arsed with it, she needs to grow up”

There is no mention of the DD “getting too close” to the aunt or “dancing in her face”. It’s quite clear to me that the aunt was telling the DD to stop her dancing in a very rude and abrupt manner simply because she thinks it’s a “stupid dance” and she “can’t be arsed with it” and thinks a 9yo “needs to grow up” and so shouldn’t be dancing at all.

OP, haven't had a chance to read the whole thread, but has somebody suggested to you that your DD might have ADHD?

Daydreaming (eg at the martial arts) is a classic for girls with ADHD. So is dancing around (for both sexes). So also can be being immature and a bit impulsive (touching the piano).

Of course if she is - then the last thing she needs is your sister and your father taking her down and destroying her self esteem. That is the best way of getting an ADHD child who is also depressed (and a little bit older, starts self harming etc). ADHD often ends up coming with other mental health issues, but a lot of those are often about being a square peg in a round hole.

My DD (who was subsequently diagnosed with ADHD) took a long time to form friends, and only really started in Year 5. But has a wonderful group now (Year 11) of the nicest girls imaginable. The kind who aren't bitchy and boy obsessed and just really nice straight girls. All of them a bit young, but she found her tribe. You only need a couple to start off with (she now has a lovely group of about 11)

But if your DD is ADHD, she really, really needs your support - and now otherwise her self esteem will be shot, and to go into the teenage years with that is asking for trouble.
Need to go, and won't be on here for a couple of days, but if you think this could be your DD, you are welcome to PM me. Take care of her.

I think there’s two issues going on here.

Firstly, OP, I think you and your family have unrealistic and unhelpful perceptions of what a nine year old ‘should’ be like. It is perfectly normal for a nine year old to want to play imaginative games and dance and sing etc. A nine year old is a child who should still largely be playing imaginative games unless they have been influenced not to. Your nine year old niece telling your daughter that she is childish and she doesn’t want to play childish games is being influenced by adults around her to think in that way. Some parents seem to want their children to grow up incredibly quickly and while some children do mature more quickly than others, of course, your family’s attitude towards your daughter is based on wanting her to behave much older than she is. I was still playing with dolls at 11 and running around in the woods pretending we were swallows and amazons with my friends - no one ever considered me to be immature or childish for doing that so I didn’t think I was. Because I was a child! You need to sort out your expectations, OP, and sort out your family’s, too. Your DD’s interests are perfectly normal and natural for a 9 year old and don’t let anyone tell her that they’re not.

Secondly as a teacher who has taught thousands of children over the years, your DD sounds to me like she has ADHD or potentially autism. Girls are much less likely to have this picked up on when they are young. An inability to make friends, tendency to be distracted, inappropriate social behaviours (the baby voice) and extreme emotional reactions are all signs of this. I would strongly urge you to see your GP and start going down the route of getting her assessed, as once you know, she can be given support and help to manage her behaviours and feelings which should improve her confidence and her ability to make meaningful social connections. Letting this continue without a diagnosis and support will mean she will struggle hugely as she gets older. Intervention now will make the world of difference.

Why is it unkind to ask a child to stop dancing close to you?

Have you RTFT?

Oh and "don't come clarting around me" is unnecessarily hostile - I think the aunt should have been gentler, or used humour. I'm not saying we should all pander to kids and treat them like snowflakes - just take a kinder approach. Like "you're making me dizzy, niece, let's sit on the sofa for a minute and you can tell me about (something niece is interested in)" or something like that.

Your daughter should be allowed to dance in her own home. She was clearly comfortable until your sister said that. I'm sorry and also happy you comforted her and she has you as her safe person

Personally I’d jump on the baby talk, OP - it’s bound to irritate and certainly won’t help her to make friends.
I’d tell her firmly that it’s irritating and that I shall be deaf to anything she doesn’t say in a normal voice. That’s what I did with dds over whining - I really can’t bear whining - I just ‘went deaf’ until they said whatever it was in a normal voice.

@Discovereads

I've never asserted that children with lots of friends don't end up in a PRU

Proving again you struggle with reading it seems

I have 10 years experience as a teacher, and 6 years in my current role. So I have more experience actually outside of my current role thus no confirmation bias. This view that the odd children with no friends in primary will find other odd children in secondary is bizarre and simply not something that's as common as many on here proclaim. If the OPs DD doesn't have the building blocks on how to make friends by the time she moves up she will still struggle there. Sometimes children need to be taught how to make friends, it doesn't come naturally to all, the OP is failing her child by not doing that and instead pretending everything is ok. When the baby voice is used she should say I can't hear you if you talk like that, when she is overly sensitive to any form of pushback she needs to calmly be told that aunty wasn't telling her off, but her dancing was getting too much and too close.

Secondly you keep blithering on about how the DD just goes up a pitch when nervous. The OP herself said she does a baby voice, and even around her. Baby voices are very common in children through the care system (not saying the OPs DD is) and the best way around this is the not hearing approach as mentioned above. If OPs DD is ND as many on here are suggesting therapeutic parenting approaches might need to be utilised

It doesn’t really matter what your sister thinks. Your DD should feel as free as she likes to dance in her own home regardless of who is there. Your sister was unkind and rude. I would have asked her to apologise or leave.

Agree with EnidSpyton.

Every child is different. 9 year olds grow up too fast. Nothing wrong with having a vivid imagination. Or dancing in your own home.

Your sister and her dd sound like they haven’t much time for her. You should speak to your dad about him embarrassing her infront of her cousins too.

There are kinder ways to talk to her. It’s not like she’s 18 ffs.

The having no friends - maybe chat to school about that and see if they have picked up on anything.

My DD has had issues with talking in a silly voice and we have sorted this by just saying politely pardon I can’t hear or understand you. If she persists or goes back to it we just gently ignore her until she speaks clearer without the voice. It is a slowish process but works. I don’t tell her off but if pushed I say I can’t hear you.

Are you purposely missing the fact she was dancing around her flapping about in a small space or...?

So guests not deserve personal space and not having a 'lively' 9 year old getting all up in it