Did DD deserve to be told off??

[PillowFeather]

My sister came around earlier. DD (9) was being quite animated dancing around in the living room. I went to make a cup of coffee and just as I walked back into the room I heard my sister say “don’t come clarting around me!”. DD stopped dancing, gave a nervous laugh then retreated upstairs to her room. I shouted up that I’d made her a drink and got no reply so I went up to find her crying. I asked what was wrong and she shouted at me to go away.

I went back downstairs and asked my sister what had happened and she said “she was doing that stupid dance around me and I can’t be arsed with it, she needs to grow up”.

DD is quite immature for her age and it doesn’t help that my niece (sisters DD) is the same age but mature for her age. Niece is spending the holidays hanging out with friends whereas DD doesn’t have any friends 😞

I can’t get it out of my head, I think DD was embarrassed and I don’t think she deserved to be told off?! Or am I being soft?

Hardly telling her off. I remember various family members saying similar to your DS to me if they were irritated by my behaviour.

I don’t think a 9 year old should be allowed to dance around an adult who has come for coffee and presumably to see her sister.

I’d be embarrassed if my 6 year old danced around a visitor, or did gymnastics on the floor by their feet, or bounced on and off furniture; all are annoying, attention seeking and thoughtless. I’d tell him to stop, either sit quietly and chat to your aunt or do it in the garden or another room!

Haven't read the full thread, but I'm wondering if your DD might benefit from being assessed for ADHD. There are several things you describe that sound similar to my DC: relative immaturity, dancing around, getting into trouble for impulsively touching stuff, daydreaming, difficulty with emotional sensitivity/regulation. Might be worth looking into?

*Being told off for being a daydreamer is normal?

Being told off for touching something that she’s curious about is also normal?*

But this child (and her mother) takes any instruction to do or not do something as being ‘told off.’ And yes, it is normal to be told to pay attention and not to play with a piano that doesn’t belong to you in a martial arts lesson. For all those suggesting she takes drama/dance lessons - in my experience it’s even more normal to be corrected in those. If I didn’t want my kids to ever be corrected I wouldn’t send them to classes. And if she sits playing with the piano or wanders around not paying attention in dance class the teacher will tell her to pay attention and join in. Otherwise she might as well not attend.

I do agree that it sounds like she’s been typecast/pushed out in the family, but I also think op is determined not to see any place her daughter might need help. It can’t be every family member plus every club leader plus every child she’s ever met. Some of it is the daughter’s need for support to behave socially in an appropriate way. And people are acting like there’s no space between being a 9 year old dressed as a 35 year old and dancing in people’s faces and being incapable of following a children’s activity class. There isn’t. It’s normal for 9 year olds to play with toys and play imaginatively. It’s also normal for a 9 year old to be capable of following a class and having a conversation with a relative.

It's really hard and I had a similar situation with my niece who is very young for her age, and my daughter who is a little older and quite mature.

My niece likes to play make believe, all day, every day, doesn't like to do anything else, to the point that she lies about everything and finds it hard to have a normal conversation. We did have to tell her, kindly, that my dd doesn't like to play make believe all the time, could they play something else.

Dd dreaded going round there as niece got so upset when we won't join in. But it was ok for my dd to not play and also ok for niece to play make believe but she needed to be aware that constant play of the same game and no consideration of other people, what they want to do or play will alienate people.

She is much better now and not so forceful pushing herself on people.

It is ok that your dd is made aware that dancing too close to people may be annoying and the baby voice but both situations could have been handled better.

Yes this is what I was saying. I think people presume that drama/music/dance are a free for all where kids can just do as they like. But actually they will also be corrected and expected to follow instructions just like at martial arts/football/swimming etc. Just different instructions. But doing dance class doesn’t mean you can just wander about playing piano!

she lasted a few weeks but left because she kept getting told off.
was she told to leave or is she finding difficult to see the point of others when she is being told off?

Just to clarify, my DC has been diagnosed with ADHD, and it's been really helpful. I also think some PP are being pretty harsh in their expectations of a 9 year old. I'd rather have a kid who was being a bit "silly" and immature that one who is older than their years.

My daughters dance class is easily the strictest thing she does with the highest behavioural expectations!

Your daughter sounds an awful lot like my 8 year old son, who is on the pathway to a diagnosis of autism (PDA profile) and ADHD.
He often talks in a baby voice, which is incredibly irritating. And he never stops - always jumping, running, dancing, doing ninja moves, football tricks, etc, and he demands i watch him. All the time. Same with guests, he constantly demands their attention and isn't happy if all the grown ups want to sit and chat for a while.
If I ask him to dial it back a bit, he runs off to his room sobbing as if I've been nasty to him.

I do think you should consider the possibility your child may be neurodivergent.

When she was dancing, why didn’t you tell her to do something else eg read a book or play quietly? Or dance in another room?

Or do you consider that telling her off?

If someone corrects her behaviour and she runs upstairs crying, that’s a bit like a toddler having a tantrum. And by following her upstairs to find out why she’s crying and sulking, you play into it, giving attention to undesirable childish behaviour.

Eg my 6 year old sometimes sulks/cries behind the sofa when reprimanded eg grandpa tells him not to interrupt or to ask before switching the fan on. I don’t reward the sulking with attention, I ignore him and chat to grandpa! Or I’d be reinforcing bad behaviour, and he’d never learn socially appropriate behaviour or manners.

I don't get some of the comments on here telling OP to encourage her DD grow up and start behaving more maturely. She's 9 FFS, not 19! Why is 9 now too old to still be goofing around doing silly dances and playing on climbing frames? It's bonkers. She's a CHILD.

But children still need boundaries and they need to know when it's appropriate to "goof around doing silly dances" and when it's not. It's absolutely not "bonkers" to expect a 9yo to know better. She's two years off going to secondary school, not a toddler.

Nobody's saying she can't mess about and be silly, but she can go in the garden or up to her room while her mum and aunt have a coffee. She doesn't need to take over the living room and get in people's faces. It's rude.

Have you thought about getting her assessed for ADHD?

She needs to learn appropriate social skills so she can make friends.

OR she is being bullied at school and they are doing nothing to help. Bizarrely any child who bullies on mumsnet is equivalent to Satan but it’s okay to blame a 9 year old for all their issues. Primaries are often rubbish for making friends as there are only a handful of kids at small ones. Dd2 had a weird year group at the village primary and I ended up moving her to another school where she has plenty of friends.

Running through the whole thread is an undertone of ‘girls should be able to sit nicely’ when many girls are physical and need to let off steam. Both of my girls did at 9. Just like many boys are (but not all).

I definitely think the friends thing needs to be looked into but the family’s disapproval of her is really unpleasant. The niece also sounds not typical to me.

It would be helpful to find some extra curriculars she does get on with. My younger daughter has had many fails with those. Clearly martial arts isn’t her thing. Dance classes are generally very structured and don’t allow for children making up their own dances which doesn’t work for them all. FWIW my younger one does swimming club 3 times a week and recreational gymnastics. She hated brownies and a couple of others didn’t work. Dd1 I could always send to anything.

I’m fairly intolerant of most things but a nine year old girl dancing around her own house? Nah. That’s fine. Poor kid.

Oh OP I am your DD, 100% she was embarrassed and feeling insecure. I can guarantee she is thinking why don’t people like me, why can’t I behave more like people want me too.

i was immature for my age and the constant comments always made me feel unworthy / in liked / like I wasn’t good enough.

its hard to hear it from your peers but then adults is heart breaking. she wasn’t just upset about this one comment from your sister it’s a multiple comments and I can guarantee she will or already has anxiety.

i remember my mum thinking I was out of ear shot and talking about how immature I was compared to my next door neighbour and if it was an issue / why I was weird etc. i cried for a while upstairs and still think about it.

i came out the other side and caught up for sure, I had a moment when I was 20 when for the first time in my whole life I felt accepted for being me by people at a new job. It was a massive turning point in my life.

Keep telling your daughter all the things you love about her, she’s amazing at xx, she’s kind, she’s great at dancing (join in with her)

then call other adults out, it wouldn’t be acceptable to ask an adult “why do you talk funny” so why is it acceptable to ask a child. Be her advocate and call people out on it.

You're asking the wrong question OP. It's not about whether DD deserved to be told off. The question you should be asking is -
"Would I have told DD off, & if I would not, why did I allow my sister to be such a twat to my child?"

A 9 year old dancing in their own home is hardly doing anything wrong. Your sister was a bitch to take her irritation out on her niece.

What's going on with the dynamic between you & your sister that you didn't instantly pull her up for being nasty to a kid? YOUR kid? In your own home?

Jesus, there are some right grumpy aul fuckers on here! And plenty think it's OK to be unkind to a child who is low on confidence.

I love my nephews to absolute pieces, I'd be building them up if they were sensitive and lacking confidence. You really see the ugly side of humanity on this site!

Is it really too much to ask that 9 year old not to do it in front of visitors? When she can do it all she likes at other times?

It's not unkind to tell a 9yo to stop messing about.

For crying out loud.

Girls!
Be compliant! Do what's expected! Stay quiet, & draw NO attention to the fact that you live in a body jampacked with energy & delight in movement! Make yourselves small, & obedient!

I think the best thing you can do is always to teach resilience - have a chat with her so she can understand both sides, and that sometimes people can be a bit mean and not to take it to heart.

My eldest can get a bit annoying - singing, or very enthusiastic game playing or whatever - he's well used to people just asking him to take it down a notch (which works for all of 30 seconds!), and wouldn't be upset at all by it, because we all know it's just him, he's not doing it on purpose, he's just a bit excitable and in a small room that can be a lot for another person to endure!

have only read OPs posts. She sounds annoying and if i were your sister I'd have said the same thing. It is super annoying to be sitting somewhere and some kid comes waving arms and legs in your space.

Your DD has confidence issues and likes to perform? on a stage then, not at every opportunity with unwilling participants.

And your dad wasn't wrong was he? If you've noticed (and mentioned?) the baby voice thing and she keeps on, maybe he'd just had enough?

She sounds as though she needs a) to grow up a bit and b) develop some resiliance

It’s not about girls - I wouldn’t allow my sons to dance round the living room in an ‘animated’ fashion when I was trying to have a guest over. Or my daughters. It’s about learning that there is a time and a place for jumping and dancing about, and a time for not doing so.

It’s not about girls being ‘small and obedient.’ And one of the best ways to run off physical energy (organised sports and activities) is inaccessible to this child as she isn’t able to cope with being corrected in any way, so leaves activities once she’s told to do anything.

DD is quite immature for her age and it doesn’t help that my niece (sisters DD) is the same age but mature for her age.

If by "mature" you mean already interested in clothes & make up & presenting a conventionally acceptable demeanor to the world - that's not maturity OP, it's brainwashing.

My own sister did this to her niece: turned a sparky, tree-climbling, outward-looking girl into a neurotic mini-me who could not leave the house without a drama-school quantity of war paint & obsessing about her body shape. Bloody tragedy. Let them dance & climb trees & be "immature" as long as they can - childhood is too soon over.