Did DD deserve to be told off??

[PillowFeather]

My sister came around earlier. DD (9) was being quite animated dancing around in the living room. I went to make a cup of coffee and just as I walked back into the room I heard my sister say “don’t come clarting around me!”. DD stopped dancing, gave a nervous laugh then retreated upstairs to her room. I shouted up that I’d made her a drink and got no reply so I went up to find her crying. I asked what was wrong and she shouted at me to go away.

I went back downstairs and asked my sister what had happened and she said “she was doing that stupid dance around me and I can’t be arsed with it, she needs to grow up”.

DD is quite immature for her age and it doesn’t help that my niece (sisters DD) is the same age but mature for her age. Niece is spending the holidays hanging out with friends whereas DD doesn’t have any friends 😞

I can’t get it out of my head, I think DD was embarrassed and I don’t think she deserved to be told off?! Or am I being soft?

If your sister doesn't make an effort with your daughter at other times like a kind, loving aunt should (especially knowing full well she hasn't any friends and is sensitive) then she is a fucking dick to say what she said. You don't go saying shit like that unless you've got a secure relationship with the child backing it up.

Your sister and her kid sound like a pair of bullies. I hope next time you have the courage to stand up to them infront of your daughter so she knows at least you definitely have her back.

All those saying she is 9 years old are not helping.
Plenty of 9-year-olds still like toys and playing, and that is fine. But most have age-appropriate social skills. The OPs DD has very poor social skills.
Children with poor social skills at 9 years old need help to address this. This is not addressed by pretending everything is okay and everyone else is just being horrible.
Has she been encouraged by one or more than one adults in her life to stay very young? I wonder if this is why she puts on a babyish voice - a 9-year-old partial response to being encouraged to stay very young and act younger than she is.
The fact she got so upset at what your sister said suggests she is not used to being asked to modify her behaviour as does her response to the martial arts class. Being asked over two sessions not to touch the piano and to pay attention and not daydream, are perfectly ordinary things for an adult to say. This itself should not lead to her not wanting to go.
Her lack of friends will have a big impact on her self-confidence. So improving her social skills could also improve her self-confidence.

I think you’re using the word ‘told
off‘ very liberally here -

• her auntie asked her to stop dancing around her, she ran upstairs to cry which to me sounds like a major overreaction on your daughters part
• she left a martial arts class after she was ‘told off’ twice? One of them being she was asked to stop touching the piano. That also seems like a major overreaction.

You need to teach her a bit of resilience. It’s normal for people to ask children to stop doing things so she needs to be able to deal with that

Poor little girl bless her heart, she’s obviously sensitive and she is who she is, why does she need to stop talking in a baby voice? Why does she need to be mature?
Teach her it’s fine to be who she is, if everyone was the same how boring would life be?

Do you have any drama or dance clubs local to you? She seems like she needs to meet girls and boys that are more her character, not mature girls that want to belittle her, auntie included!

To be honest with you she sounds like a lovely little girl and some of the people around you don’t sound very lovely at all! Dont try to change her, she’s got years and years ahead to be ‘mature’ and conform like everyone else.

The part where you said she wanted to play and use her imagination was actually adorable, I remember me and my sister doing this at that age maybe even a little older, we’ve always been dreamers and imaginative, don’t let that be taken away just because others believe it’s weird or don’t like it.

As for your sister, tell her not to speak to your child like that, it’s nasty and she upset her so should apologise.

I know people hate it when people suggest additional needs, but I'm another who can see red flags here. I have 12yr old twins who are both autistic - DS was diagnosed at age 4 but DD wasn't diagnosed until she was 10 and even then that took me pushing to get her in front of the right person. Girls are so, so often overlooked when it comes to being diagnosed as neurodiverse because they present in so many more subtle ways.

The unusual voice tone, difficulties with forming/sustaining friendships, sensitivity, immaturity, impulse control (ie/touching the piano), daydreaming could all point to a child who is neurodiverse. Of course, neurotypical children can all experience these things too. But I would say there is more than enough things just in your short descriptions to suggest she needs to be assessed. Do you have a SENCO at your school you could approach? That's often a good start.

She may not be neurodiverse but I would suggest that your descriptions absolutely warrant further investigation.

This is not addressed by pretending everything is okay and everyone else is just being horrible.

The sister, cousin and grandfather were being horrible to her DD full stop.
The only pretending going on is that it’s perfectly normal to snap at and humiliate a child.

@StepAwayFromGoogling

I agree.

She needs to learn appropriate social skills so she can make friends.
Or do you want her only friend to be her mum?

@antelopevalley

There will be plenty of girls and boys like her, she’s not going to be some weirdo that only has her mum for a friend.

Nothing suggests that she has inappropriate social skills, she’s got arsehole family members & touched a piano - a thing she’s desperate to learn.
She’s hardly asbo material is she? The poor girl just isn’t like other people around her, she’s not the only one though, I can’t understand why people on this thread are so adamant that she’s the huge issue here, she sounds like a sweet child tbh.

@Itsbritneybitch22 she has no friends.
Having poor social skills does not make you a weirdo.
She talks in a babyish voice and gets very upset at what are normal interactions e.g. martial arts club.

I can’t see how the grandad was critiquing her by asking her why she’s speaking like a baby… it’s not normal for 9 year olds to act like that. “it’s not normal”. Seriously?!!! Do people really think/talk like this?

OP even if the behaviour was massively unusual (which it really isn’t) normal is another way of saying “average” I’m not sure why anyone would be courting that. Your Dad is unkind and he was mocking her, your sister lost her temper but in the context of her child’s comments has likely been having a good old critique of your dd compared to her own with the wider family. Your child is not the problem here.

I totally agree with you. It sounds like she's being compared to a child who's been allowed to grow up too quickly.

All to often you find even younger children encouraged to dress inappropriately in skimpy tops, bare midriffs and leggins, full make up on and painted nails.

It isn't right they should be allowed to have a childhood. Some children are loners, and drama and dance is good for them, it helps those low on self esteem and gives them confidence, provided people aren't rude to them about it.

I worked with 11 yr olds upwards in a musical drama group to give them confidence and keep them off the streets. It was free to the children, run from a donated church building, it was great fun, they didn't have to go to church there teenagers came from miles around, we spent 2 weeks once a year converting the church into a theatre and put on shows for 4 days. The children even helped the parents and friends with the conversion. Painting scenery, making costumes etc.

@SnazzyShazzy54 You are ignoring that OPs DD has no friends.

@antelopevalley

Her grandad belittling her in front of all her lovely mature normal cousins is a normal social i reaction is it? Oh while they all laugh at her.

Being told off for being a daydreamer is normal?
Being told off for touching something that she’s curious about is also normal?

Her Aunt was mean, I think OP’s daughter has perhaps got used to her family treating her like this and is feeling sensitive and reacts how she does because it’s just not nice is it?

And she puts on a baby voice … it’s not actually that weird is it? know quite a few full grown women that put on a baby voice, or cutesy voice that they think is cute, doesn’t mean it’s not normal, Marilyn Monroe made a whole life from talking in that cute little voice.

Just because it’s not normal for you or you find it annoying, doesn’t mean she needs to change, to be like her mature cousins who laugh at other people that are being picked on, which she definitely was.

That was very mean and if my sister was mean like that to my wee girl I’d be annoyed and would let her know as much. My daughter is 9 and does be delighted/excited to see visitors. They’re still a novelty after COVID. She also loves doing wee dance routines with friends and occasionally likes to show us them - I don’t think there’s anything wrong with any of that. Your sister was horrible and it must have been very humiliating for your daughter to be spoken to like that by an aunt (who you’d expect to be a kind, safe person) in her own home. I hope she’s alright now.

OP- were you there when the martial arts club incident happened? I'm curious if she was asked to leave the piano alone or it was an actual telling off? My children have done martial arts and I know it's often recommended because it teaches discipline. Did you suggest the class to your dd or did she want to go? It's an unusual choice for a child who sounds more creative /artistic /musical.

How does your dd react to gentle discipline from you? For example if you asked her to stop doing something, does she get immediately upset?

I think that the episode with her grandfather was humiliating as there were cousins watching. When dd denied talking in a baby voice, grandfather should have asked her to talk normally rather than her baby voice instead of getting into a "yes you do" "no I don't" argument with a 9 year old.

I just read the rest of your posts. Your niece sounds like a precocious dose. I wouldn’t encourage contact with her. My daughter 9 mentioned in post above loves playgrounds ( ones with stuff suited for bigger kids) still and I’m delighted. I imagine this summer could be the last time she enjoys playing in them with her younger brothers and it makes me a little sad.

"Being told off for being a daydreamer is normal?
Being told off for touching something that she’s curious about is also normal?"

Being told not to touch the piano and to pay attention are normal. She is nine, not three years old.

And adult women who put on a babyish voice are annoying as fuck.

But your opinion and my opinion do not really matter. What matters is the opinion of other children and they do not want to be friends with OPs DD. So carry on saying she should be herself as much as you want (what does that even mean anyway?), but if she does not learn appropriate social skills she will continue to struggle to have any friends.

The harsh reality is that if parents do not help their children to learn social skills and appropriate ways of behaving, other children do not want to play or be involved with them.

What matters is the opinion of other children and they do not want to be friends with OPs DD

Whao. I so disagree

Your niece sounds like a precocious dose

Now this I do agree with. Your dd sounds lovely, but like she was born into the wrong extended family. It sounds like the baby talk is a nervous tic that happens in the presence of bullies.

My dgd was being terribly bullied at her last school by a group of 9-year-olds who thought she wasn't sophisticated enough for their liking. My dd changed her school and she is has a great bunch of friends at her new school. I'm glad my dd didn't take the attitude of some of the posters here that it was the child's fault for not conforming.

I do hope you can access some more artistic after-school classes for her, OP.

Your sister is an adult and although family, still a guest in your home that was a harsh way to speak to your DD. 9 is young and a bit sad her own DD has had to grow up so quickly, but not surprising with your sister’s attitude

Your sister could have asked her nicely to tone it down if she was actually being annoying. Clarting sounds like a pretty rude kind of word.
People should maybe make an effort to get on with and build relationships with younger relatives.

It's impossible for anyone who wasn't present (OP included) to know whether the DD's actions were enough to warrant the reaction she got. We're all just speculating.

What is very clear is that this girl is struggling in a variety of settings and needs help. Probably a SN assessment, and definitely a parent willing to kindly guide her towards socially acceptable behaviour. As OP is seeing, it's better they hear this stuff early and from loving parents than from others at the end of their tether.

Is anyone imagining Monica and Phoebe's 'English' friend Amanda clarting about- 'self taught, no lessons!' 😂

It being her own home doesn't negate the fact that it is not appropriate to get into people's personal spaces.

Sounds as though she was a bit harsh with what she says but the essence was correct.

Clarting sounds like a pretty rude kind of word

😂Just because it rhymes with "farting" doesn't make it rude - it means messing, as in "stop messing about".

OP your dd sounds lovely but as though she struggles w social skills. Although I agree that she shouldn't be expected to grow up too quickly a bit of guidance on the basics wouldn't go amiss. I also wondered about neurodiversity. If youve ever wondered about it for your dd then I'd urge you to get it checked out. Knowing why you are different (if you are) is a huge help.