What do I do ?

[Moominmammashouse]

Asking for advice am lying awake thinking about things
Used to have a really good relationship with my daughter
But not now
I don't want to make things worse she's got a list of things that have upset her
Should i keep trying or leave things be
I have anxiety so sometimes find it hard too see what's for the best

But as adults, parents maybe particularly, isn't there a point where you need to take some responsibility? Illness and MH is not something to be brushed aside as a small obstacle but, at some point before going on the holiday the OP could have sought medical help for the skyrocketing anxiety she would have been feeling. She didn't have to drink to self medicate.

It doesn't have to involve guilty prostrations, just real self reflection and a proactive approach to changing what can be changed.

The OPs response to a PP of "what else can I do?" was extremely familiar. People are trying to help you with that, you aren't listening @Moominmammashouse

It feels like this is just a small part of a wider picture to me.

She isn’t a zombie.

she always has the choice to seek treatment and get help.
she always has the choice to say “I’m having a bad day, I think I’ll get an early night.”

What you are doing is saying to the (now adult) child “Suck it Up, you are responsible for making sure your mother doesn’t have to experience unpleasant emotions, regardless of the toll on you.”. That’s actually reprehensible.

If you prioritize your mental health issues above your children then that’s not a consequence free zone, and her (deprioritized) children are perfectly entitled to say. I have to stay away from you.

You are there talking the language of addiction, and maybe that’s useful for OP at this second. But really for the long term it isn’t- if she wants to repair the relationship with her child, she needs to start really thinking about what it must be like for her daughter.

Op you were not well enough to go on holiday in the first place, and it might be the case you are not even well enough to have proper boundaries in place and say no, I can’t travel but I am. comfortable with x, y and z.
Loving children do not force their mother to join a holiday they know she isn’t well enough for. This is not entirely your fault op, and you sound incredibly vulnerable to me.

Do you have support beyond your children? Friends. Siblings etc? The problem with your condition is eventually you will become increasingly isolated and alone.

Are you taking meds? Counselling? Proper MH support?

I would focus entirely now on getting help in place. Do you drink often? If you have already sincerely apologised to your dd then you have done all you can for now.

In some ways you were set up to fail, any professional could have told you the hurdle was too high. I hope it hasn’t set you back too far.

My dm had mh problems - I was a carer for all intents and purposes for some of my childhood too. Let your dd get over this in her own way, she may be tired of parenting you, and wishing she could sometimes be the one that is looked after and if you were drunk on the plane that would have been awful for her. I think you all need much more support, it is possible to recover from this op 💐💐

I could see your dd being angry with you because you are asking her to mother you. By not taking responsibility for your anxiety but getting drunk instead, you are asking her to be the parent and take responsibility for you. Its not fair on her.
Did your mother do the same to you and that is where you have learnt to behave in this way?

Conversely those that are suffering from very poor mental health are in fact unable and often too unwell to communicate how serious things are for them. Unless you have someone that can advocate for you, it can be very difficult to inform others about the severity and have the necessary stabilising boundaries in place.

If op was being treated properly she could have discussed the trip with her doctor/ therapist beforehand, and received help and guidance which could have resulted in op’s children being told her doctor advises against it, but suggests something like this might be possible. Without support op seems unable to defend her own interests and well being and needs much more help in my view.

OP growing up as a child of parents with mental health and alcohol issues is toxic and extremely damaging to the child and sometimes they just need to emotionally disengage for their own wellbeing. They are I am sure understanding of the mental health issues and don't apportion blame, but that doesn't make the situation any less toxic for them and they do have to engage in some self preservation. The holiday I'm sure was just another version of what your daughter has always lived with, just more of the same, and perhaps she needs to disengage to quite rightly prioritise her own mental well-being. It also wasn't just the holiday, I'm sure, it was how it triggered an avalanche of distressing memories for her, too.

The alcohol to self medicate wasn't acceptable, it wasn't the right thing for you to go on the holiday and feel pressured, but the sum total is that yet again your daughter carried the huge mental load of understanding her parents situation with no support for her own mental well-being.

Over time she has probably had to learn to be extremely self sufficient and resilient and walk herself through some hard times growing up as she knew her role was ultimately to be a support to her parents, not to have that normal child role where they support her.

I am sure she loves you very much, and is concerned for how much you suffer with agrophobia, but it's toxic for her. My guess is that she needs to see you move from the self medicating with alcohol, for sure, to a more positive approach, if you want to do something constructive with your relationship with her.

Op it sounds like you have some really challenging problems and the holiday sounds like a misjudged idea on your families part.

You mentioned that you thought you had a good relationship with your daughter and I wanted to comment on that part. It sounds more to me that she is a good girls who loves you and cares for you so she comes to see you, tries not to upset you, takes you out, talks to you about her life. If you only go out once a week your life must be quite small and I imagine you want to know all about her life to fill the void. It sounds like she does a lot for you and it probably feels like a chore to her What do you do for her? She will have friends who's Mum's will have very different lives to you, they will take their daughters out for lunch or to get their nails done, they will send them money or treats that they've been out and brought. Do their washing, cook them dinner, arrange things for them, pick them up from nights out, cook them breakfast after a hangover, take them to important events or appointments etc. I'm not saying this to criticise you but to help you understand why your daughter might have had enough. You have a very one sided relationship where she has become the parent. That must be tough for her at 20.

The best thing you can do for her if you love her is let her have space to be 20 years old. I imagine she is mortified and frustrated by your behaviour and I am sure she will speak to you again but it might take time. You should use that time to really work on yourself with medical help and stop relying on her, she's wants a break.

I drank too much to cope with the anxiety it was a complete disaster

Arh, so now we get to the crux of it. I must say your earlier posts framed it as though you're daughter has been unreasonable or taken offence to something minor.

You still haven't said what happened though - did you piss yourself, make a scene, become abusive? 'Drank too much' can cover a lot of things really.

You may not want to divulge that here, but are you really and truly able to admit to yourself what you've done and how that felt for your family?

You specify what help it it's you're getting, but what did they have to say about this holiday? I'd have thought they'd have advised against it?

The getting help is key really. You need to prove that you're sorry. It sounds as though you're family need to understand condition better, too.

This has obviously been going on for a very long time.

You might be getting help now, but you have our your husband and daughter through many, many years of dealing with your acrophobia. That is wholly unfair and you should have dealt with it years ago.

You cannot expect them to be able to put up with this forever. You felt unsupported because they’ll be sick and tired of having to deal with it.

Yes, it’s hard being the ill one. I know, I’ve been there. But it’s exceptionally hard and takes a huge emotional toll being the family dealing with the ill one. And those who are ill are so wrapped up in their own issues they don’t appreciate the damage they’re causing to others.

Can’t imagine why anyone would book a holiday abroad for someone who’s agoraphobic. It’s worrying enough facing the crowds at airports and being shut in a plane for hours, completely outside your comfort zone and out of your control for many of us. So I think you did amazingly well to go through with it at all and understand why, like many of us, you used alcohol to get through it. Hopefully this problem with your daughter will resolve itself. I wish you well.

There's little point having anxiety over the holiday which has happened now.

You do now have the chance to reflect on what happened and do things differently in future.

1. Don't go on holiday if you are still in the grip of agoraphobia. When you've had effective treatment this may be the option for the future but not in the near term.
2. set some reasonable and loving boundaries with your DD " DD I need your support to realise I can't come on holiday at the moment, as my anxiety levels go through the room. That's my challenge to own, I'm getting support now, and we can still meet up and do things locally, but for the time being I cannot go on any more holidays until I'm ready to cope.
3. seek specialist support - CBT can be a near term solution. It's readily available on the NHS, albeit there is a waiting list. If you're already getting support, then stick with it and hopefully it will start to show good results and you'll feel stronger with the above boundaries in place so you don't feel painted into a corner.

good luck

It beggars belief doesn't it.

i wonder if @Moominmammashouse hasnt given their anxiety a name, to make it real to their DD. Sometimes facing one's demons is difficult enough let alone admitting it to your offspring!

I appreciate that you are in a bad place, but you do need to recognise your DD's view.
She was asked to go on a holiday to look after you - presumably because you and the wider family recognise that you need support.
She did not want to go but went anyway ( did you or the rest of the family put emotional pressure on her to do so)
When she got there you drank and said / did something that caused her distress. Yet it appears from your responses from PP questions that the rest of your family did diddly squat to resolve what ever the issue is / provide support for her.

Of course she is furious - with you for casting her as your emotional support dog within the family against her will. My mum does this by calling me each time she wants a "natter" because she pushes everyone else away because she does not want to burden them.... now everyone assumes I am her support. If I pull back I am a terrible uncaring daughter. It is an awful situation to be put in - I hate it when my mum calls (every night - at least once) & I visit under sufferance (only once a week). It impacts on all aspects of my life - I cannot go out with friends or be away on my own terms without being made to feel bad for not being there for her calls.

With the wider family for not stepping up on this occasion or them many other times she has had to pick up the pieces - this dynamic does not happen over night.

And with herself for letting you all emotionally blackmail her into a situation that she knew was going to be stressful.

If you want to fix the relationship - widen out the people you talk to and get professional help. Listen to what your daughter has to say and don't assume that you have first call on her time or emotionally. Also make sure that the rest of the family recognise what they are asking her to do, what they are making her do by their inactions & actions. Ask the rest of the family to step up and support you.

All other things aside, stop talking about your own relationship with your mother and how you know what it’s like. You don’t know what it’s like for her and you need to listen and not make it about you.

Thanks for the replies
Lots to think about
I do feel I have been a mother to my daughter and other children
Even tho I have agorabhobia
Yes my life is very small but I don't call my daughter or other children constantly
My daughter wasn't asked to come on holiday to be my carer

I only posted about the relationship with my own mother as an example of I know things aren't always easy
Not as a comparison to my daughter

My daughter wasn't asked on holiday to look after me

The taking things out of context, lashing out passive aggressively at perceived attacks, the distancing language, drip drop of pertinent information, and the cycle between guilt inducing self flagellation and minimising of your part all are very familiar too tbh.

@Moominmammashouse I really hope you do take on board some of the comments that you might see as being negative like mine. I hope you get the help you deserve, I'm sure you are quite unhappy with a lot of things in life. I hope your DD is ok and for her sake you don't end up in the same position I'm in with my mum.

Your relationship with your DD doesn't have to continue as it has been, and it doesn't have to deteriorate to the point your DD goes NC with you. First you'll have to honestly engage, reflect and accept responsibility for the things she is upset about, maybe in therapy. If you can show her you really mean it through change then it's fixable. I'd still advise giving her space till then though if she's told you she doesn't want to see or speak to you.

What do you want to happen here OP?

How do you see this panning out?
What is it that you want from your daughter?

If she said “With compassion, my mother has a mental illness that leads her to be a taker emotionally. My well has run dry.” What is your response to that, how are you going to get water flowing I to the well of her life.

do you think she is being unreasonable?

I'm simply saying my daughter wasn't asked on holiday to look after me

The taking things out of context, lashing out passive aggressively at perceived attacks, the distancing language, drip drop of pertinent information, and the cycle between guilt inducing self flagellation and minimising of your part all are very familiar too tbh.

Snap.

@Moominmammashouse You mentioned earlier that you DD has become distant. I do that with my Mum so that things aren't taken out of context, brought up several years later as "evidence" or used as the basis for unfounded speculation and gossip.

My daughter as an adult will make her own decision
I respect that

My daughter as an adult will make her own decision

My daughter didn't want to come she came for us

She had to be persuaded to come on the holiday - someone pressured her to change her mind. Possibly leveraging in the family hierarchy and maybe not overtly or consciously "but it will be fun", "don't be such a kill joy", "do it for dad .... it will be soooo good for him to get out of the house", "do it for mum.....", Go on you will have fun", "you don't know that she will drink / cause a scene" "it won't be the same without you"

Maybe she came for myself my husband my mum and her siblings
She left her partner at home
I drank on the plane and felt un supported

There is a level of assumed support required from her in that statement.

You say you saw your daughter two weeks ago. That’s normal. She’s an adult; she doesn’t have to see you every day or every week.

If your agoraphobia means you can’t really go anywhere, presumably she always has to come to you, so the onus is on her every time and perhaps it gets a bit much for her.

The holiday example is clearly not the only thing that has bothered your daughter. Your whole communication style in this thread is quite draining, and if that’s indicative of your usual way of expressing yourself I imagine that might be quite hard for others sometimes. It seems to go:

1. There is something wrong that is upsetting but you refuse to explain properly what it is, and you then make people work and work and work for ages to find out what it is.
2. When you finally explain the bare bones of the issue, people offer an opinion and you say they’ve got it wrong and it wasn’t like that, but you also won’t actually answer any of the questions people ask you about it, even though they are actually trying to help you.
3. You then get upset and defensive and steer the subject on to your illnesses and how hard things are for you.
4. The main focus is you and your feelings and how much you love your daughter and how upsetting it is for you, which then makes it hard for anyone to point out their side of the story without looking like the villain.

Clearly you do love your daughter very much and I’m sure she loves you too, but I suspect you are perhaps quite needy emotionally and that it’s easy to upset you. You obviously need a lot of support and reassurance and that’s partly down to your mental health struggles - that obviously does make your life very hard, and I sympathise. But I think perhaps that can be quite exhausting for people close to you.

We still haven’t really had an explanation for why your adult daughter ended up coming on a holiday that she didn’t want to be part of in the first place and I strongly suspect that she knew it would be a disaster but ended up finally giving in after much emotional manipulation that made her feel guilty. Then it was, as she knew it would be, a disaster. I suspect this is very much a pattern she has seen recurring all her life and that, while she loves you, she feels that she needs some space for the sake of her own mental health because she is emotionally exhausted by all this.

Spot on in my opinion @ManateeFair