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AIBU?

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Original poster

Do I really need XH's permission to take DD abroad?!

176 replies

mumyes · 01/08/2022 23:12

Is this really a thing?!
Government advice states that a lone parent needs written permission to travel abroad with their child.
WTAF?!
Is this really the case?
Can anyone who has experience advise?

Thanks!

OP posts:
Wheresthebeach · 02/08/2022 10:36

Forging that sort of documentation is a pretty big step - I can imagine if caught there would be pretty serious consequences (over custody and access if nothing else). Most people wouldn't risk it, so yes, you could do it but most wouldn't hence it's a deterrent for the majority of people. Sure, the professional people smugglers will have it organised but this isn't about them. Its about parents not heading out of the country without the other parents permission.

And while abusive ex's may use to it cause trouble and disrupt holiday's...it should also stop them swanning off with the kids as well.

wallpoppy · 02/08/2022 10:38

I feel like these sporadic checks, left up to the border control agent to check or not, are worse than nothing. Anyone with any real intention to abduct children would know what to expect and would forge documents or prepare answers for any eventuality, and knowing exactly what to expect and how to talk their way out of anything only makes it easier.

And what are the border agents even looking for when they do deign to check? Does it depend on their mood? The general vibes? A wild guess based on nationality or ethnicity or other stereotypes? I'm guessing it's a combination of all of the above, with a big focus on the racial/national profiling bit.

I imagine a man with an Arabic name and a Saudi passport taking his children on a trip to Dubai would be FAR more thoroughly questioned than David Smith with a British passport taking Ava and Henry to the all-inclusive in Tenerife with his new girlfriend. My ex would have definitely fit in the second category - White-passing dad with an anglicized name and a British passport- but he also had a passport for and family in a country where I would have had no recourse to his kidnapping our daughter and he was desperate to get her there to be raised by his mother. He probably would have found a way to do it, as well, were it not for my constant vigilance and his lack of money to actually buy the flights needed to get her there (weird to say I'm thankful for a gambling addiction but in this case it worked out haha).

Wheresthebeach · 02/08/2022 10:45

Quick google says: If the correct procedure is not followed and you attempt to take your child abroad without permission, you could face criminal charges for child abduction.

I'm sure destination and general vibe are all part of it. For us, I suspect we got quizzed more than most as my step kids are mixed race and DH and I aren't. We found the fastest way to bring it to an end was for us to suggest phoning their mother. Once DSD hit the age of 12...the eye rolling, and 'oh this again' tended to do the trick.

Davyjones · 02/08/2022 10:48

mumyes · 01/08/2022 23:12

Is this really a thing?!
Government advice states that a lone parent needs written permission to travel abroad with their child.
WTAF?!
Is this really the case?
Can anyone who has experience advise?

Thanks!

Of course or kidnap could occur

however it’s not checked in my experience

maybe they check men but I never got checked with my daughter

mind you they never checked my passport either, just waved me through

greece

jeaux90 · 02/08/2022 10:58

I've literally just come back from the US and wasn't asked once.

But I have been asked several times in previous years to either produce a birth certificate and/or letter of permission to travel/court order. (Mainly travel into European places though)

I always carry the documents just in case.

SomePosters · 02/08/2022 11:42

Summererfluff · 02/08/2022 00:31

Border Force Officer here.

Section 55 of the Borders, Citizenship & Immigration Act 2009 says that we must carry out all our functions in a way that safeguards children. Obviously the most important thing is stopping children being kidnapped and/or trafficked (and I've encountered quite a few over the years)! So you might be asked questions leaving or entering the UK (probably more likely to be when entering, just because there aren't always exit checks).

We are trained to assess certain situations so I won't always ask for documentation if I've asked a few questions and I'm satisfied that the child is travelling with their parent or guardian, and is happy to do so.

If I do ask for a permission letter I would be happy with a quick squiggle saying "I give permission for xx to travel with xx", but I would also hope to see a photocopy of that person's passport to prove it's written by them and a contact telephone number in case I want to confirm any details.

Obviously you get good and bad Border Force Officers. Some of the bad ones will not even bother asking anything, while some will interrogate passengers unnecessarily and incorrectly say that passengers MUST produce documentation. Please feel free to lodge a complaint against any bad ones you encounter!

To confirm, it's not compulsory to produce something but it makes things easier if you do. I carry a photo of my children's full birth certificate on my phone as they have their dad's surname.

Hope that helps.

That’s super helpful. Thank you.

SuperPets · 02/08/2022 11:49

To confirm, it's not compulsory to produce something but it makes things easier if you do

To be clear, this is for entering the UK. It is NOT the case for Everywhere Else.

caringcarer · 02/08/2022 11:52

My exh asked judge to put month on length of time I could take our child overseas as he knew my new DH had a house in France. I would not have minded had he wanted to see our child himself during school holidays but no he just wanted to stop us going for 6 weeks.

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 02/08/2022 12:00

wallpoppy · 02/08/2022 09:29

As someone who lived for many years in abject fear that my oldest daughter would be abducted and taken abroad by her father, never to be seen by me again, I am absolutely disgusted by how many of you are so resentful of even the most basic steps to prevent child abduction- not to mention children who are at risk of being taken out of the country for marriage or FGM. If someone has asked my daughter if her father was her father, she would have said yes and she would have been gone forever.

What we actually should have is mandatory (not sporadic) exit checks on children, and a register of parents who object to their travel, along with a way for children to add themselves to the register when they are at risk for forced marriage or FGM. Yes, some parents will make it difficult for the other parent to go on holiday but if you think your camping trip to France is more important than my right to ever see my daughter again or another child’s right not to be sold to an old man then you should re assess your priorities and humanity.

There are already measures in place to prevent travel where there is a court order in place and most girls will be taken abroad for FGM by a parent so I'm not sure why you are so outraged

wallpoppy · 02/08/2022 12:40

@CloseYourEyesAndSee children who want to register themselves at risk of being taken abroad for forced marriage or FGM should be able to do so, along with children registered by their parent for risk of family abduction. All children leaving the country should have their passports checked against this register- they absolutely are not checked with any kind of thoroughness currently, passport checks on departure are sporadic. I’m not “outraged”, I’m just pointing out a massive failure in the protection of children. If you are happy with the status quo, you’re in good company, plenty of people value their temporary convenience over the actual risk to safety and life of others. The world was made for people like you.

MacaroniBaloney · 02/08/2022 12:52

Write it yourself. Who would know.

If you're booked and a two week Tui holiday you're less likey to be asked than if you've a one way ticket to Syria.

Algbu6 · 02/08/2022 12:55

MacaroniBaloney · 02/08/2022 12:52

Write it yourself. Who would know.

If you're booked and a two week Tui holiday you're less likey to be asked than if you've a one way ticket to Syria.

Not true. I book all my holidays with TUI. The issue for me and others... is AFTER the holiday entering the UK airports. You can't forget someone else's signature if you git found out.... I think as long as you have a birth certificate to hand most officers will accept just that. Expecting a letter is a grey area what about those dad's that don't see their child!

Algbu6 · 02/08/2022 12:55

Forge*

Classicblunder · 02/08/2022 13:03

CatNoBag · 02/08/2022 09:21

I know a family with three children, the children all have a different surname to both the mother and father (mother has kept her maiden name). The mother was stopped once at passport control and the children who were with her asked to confirm their relationship to her, but the father who had one of the children with him at a separate window wasn't questioned.

Surnames don't come into it, that's just a coincidence.

I have seen, through work, the guidance that border control have and there is 0 reference to surnames. They have a list of risk factors and then do some random checks.

decayingmatter · 02/08/2022 13:16

Usually me and my DC are not stopped but once we were and despite me having a Court order specifically for this purpose I was told off for not also having DC's birth certificate

adriftabroad · 02/08/2022 13:22

I get asked every time (maybe 8 times in last 10 years) DD has been taken away to another room on occasion.

We have different nationalities though ... Spanish/British passports.

I have seen a grandma stopped at Bristol travelling with her GD until passport control could reach the mother.

You absolutely DO need every document you can get your hands on, JIC.

adriftabroad · 02/08/2022 13:25

It[s because of the Hague convention and kidnapping. You would be kidnapping your DC if you did not have permission from father. Yes, this is true.

SuperPets · 02/08/2022 13:25

Classicblunder · 02/08/2022 13:03

Surnames don't come into it, that's just a coincidence.

I have seen, through work, the guidance that border control have and there is 0 reference to surnames. They have a list of risk factors and then do some random checks.

Show quote history

Again, you are talking only about UK. You have no idea whether surnames come into it in any other country people might be travelling to.

adriftabroad · 02/08/2022 13:34

They definitely do count in Italy. My friend is Italian, Italian DC[s, totally different sutname to her Italian DH, they were not allowed to travel to Paris! (They couldn[t get hold of the DH)

Classicblunder · 02/08/2022 13:36

SuperPets · 02/08/2022 13:25

Again, you are talking only about UK. You have no idea whether surnames come into it in any other country people might be travelling to.

Show quote history

Sure but people have said a lot of incorrect stuff about UK border force and surnames in this thread. It's not a good idea to assume that same surname means no issues

SuperPets · 02/08/2022 13:40

Classicblunder · 02/08/2022 13:36

Sure but people have said a lot of incorrect stuff about UK border force and surnames in this thread. It's not a good idea to assume that same surname means no issues

Show quote history

The only person talking about UK border force is you, except you keep implying your knowledge is universal.

People are talking about travelling abroad. UK passport holders entering the UK are not the people at issue here.

Lovemypeaceandquiet · 02/08/2022 13:42

I’ve got a question regarding my friend’s situation

Shes planned a trip to European country next month with her 2 year old. Her ex is hardly involved, sees the child few times a year and never paid a penny. She asked him for a written permission to take the child abroad months ago, he signed it, no problem.

In a meantime, she’s gone through CMS to get any money off him as he’s refusing to contribute in any way. He said he doesn’t have to pay cause there weren’t married (!). He’s a deadbeat human being, not just a dad basically.

Anyway, after he got served the CMS papers, he was fuming, sent her multiple abusive messages and said that withdraws his permission for the child to travel and will ring the police if my friend will attempt to leave the country. Can he do that?

Shes still got the first permission he signed, plus all the abusive messages in which he states he’s withdrawing the consent because of the CMS.

Classicblunder · 02/08/2022 13:43

SuperPets · 02/08/2022 13:40

The only person talking about UK border force is you, except you keep implying your knowledge is universal.

People are talking about travelling abroad. UK passport holders entering the UK are not the people at issue here.

Show quote history

Bollocks.

Very first page someone says:

I’ve been asked at UK passport control on several occasions but my surname is different from my son’s.

BiscoffSundae · 02/08/2022 13:44

Lovemypeaceandquiet · 02/08/2022 13:42

I’ve got a question regarding my friend’s situation

Shes planned a trip to European country next month with her 2 year old. Her ex is hardly involved, sees the child few times a year and never paid a penny. She asked him for a written permission to take the child abroad months ago, he signed it, no problem.

In a meantime, she’s gone through CMS to get any money off him as he’s refusing to contribute in any way. He said he doesn’t have to pay cause there weren’t married (!). He’s a deadbeat human being, not just a dad basically.

Anyway, after he got served the CMS papers, he was fuming, sent her multiple abusive messages and said that withdraws his permission for the child to travel and will ring the police if my friend will attempt to leave the country. Can he do that?

Shes still got the first permission he signed, plus all the abusive messages in which he states he’s withdrawing the consent because of the CMS.

Yes he can change his mind, she can go to court to get permission

KermitlovesKeyLimePie · 02/08/2022 13:45

My DSis and Nephews came to the USA with us in June.

She had a letter from her ex and WAS asked for it.