Do I really need XH's permission to take DD abroad?!

[mumyes]

Is this really a thing?!
Government advice states that a lone parent needs written permission to travel abroad with their child.
WTAF?!
Is this really the case?
Can anyone who has experience advise?

Thanks!

Exactly
and they don't know who else has PR either - the local authority may have it or a grandparent for example
it's legislation that only gets invoked where it needs to such as where there is a prohibited steps order in place

I know a family with three children, the children all have a different surname to both the mother and father (mother has kept her maiden name). The mother was stopped once at passport control and the children who were with her asked to confirm their relationship to her, but the father who had one of the children with him at a separate window wasn't questioned.

14 years of travelling as a lone parent, never been asked. We do have the same surname.

As someone who lived for many years in abject fear that my oldest daughter would be abducted and taken abroad by her father, never to be seen by me again, I am absolutely disgusted by how many of you are so resentful of even the most basic steps to prevent child abduction- not to mention children who are at risk of being taken out of the country for marriage or FGM. If someone has asked my daughter if her father was her father, she would have said yes and she would have been gone forever.

What we actually should have is mandatory (not sporadic) exit checks on children, and a register of parents who object to their travel, along with a way for children to add themselves to the register when they are at risk for forced marriage or FGM. Yes, some parents will make it difficult for the other parent to go on holiday but if you think your camping trip to France is more important than my right to ever see my daughter again or another child’s right not to be sold to an old man then you should re assess your priorities and humanity.

Too many kids get abducted, and as a society we are ignoring child trafficking. We like to think it doesn't happen here, or in Europe. Kids need protecting.

My DH and I were stopped and quizzed entering the US with his kids. The kids were quizzed for quite some time as well. We had a letter (from very abusive, difficult ex who caused us no end of trouble but the kids made it clear she better not mess with their holidays!). Yes its a hassle, but that's the way it is. If the ex hadn't done the letter then the kids wouldn't have had a foreign holiday until they were older I guess. But their mother wanted holidays too, so we did the letters at the same time so she couldn't get us to do one, then refuse ours.

@wallpoppy I'm sorry that's happened to you but you're kind of in the minority and you sound a bit angry at everyone. I didn't say I was resentful of any controls in place, I said I'd never been asked to prove anything, which is pretty much what everyone else has said. I didn't even know it was a requirement - no one has ever told me.

There are checks on landing, so you could potentially be sent back to your starting country.

I do agree with the intention but the fact they only sometimes ask but mostly don't means it's pointless?
And also a kidnapper/paedo/trafficker could order a birth cert and forge a letter?

You don't always get asked but there's always the chance so its best to be prepared. I usually get asked when entering the UK though I wasn't asked this summer. I always take birth certificates, signed permission letter from my son's dad (with his phone number on it) and copy of court order giving me sole custody over DD. Her dad's dead now so I ought to take his death certificate instead but I felt really weird about taking that this summer (first time travelling since his death) so I just took the court order papers instead but didn't get asked for them this time.

I've only once had any real trouble (the first time I travelled with DD I didn't have a birth certificate but they don't give out birth certificates in my country and I didn't know I could order one but I explained that and the UK border control let me, after telling me off so not a big problem that time) when my ex called the border guards and said he didn't give permission and put an alert on DD's passport. Was stopped and taken aside and questioned, then left waiting while they went off and called him. Missed our flight, was horribly stressful. Eventually they decided he didn't have a good enough reason to not give permission and put us on the next flight. Would not want to go through that ever again so definitely make sure you have all the documentation you can.

There are many of us though that have abusive or absent ex partners, where it is almost impossible to obtain consent and refusing consent is an extension of this abuse.

Whilst I'm not remotely objecting to safeguarding against child abduction or trafficking, I do think there should be some other way to prove that you are a sole, resident parent with no intention of permanently removing a child from their place of residence.

@wallpoppy yes parents in your (awful) position should be able to register and if/when your child’s passport is presented at the border then the need for additional checks will come to light.

BUT parents of children whose other parent has died should not have to be reminded (or, more importantly, the bereaved child reminded) of their loss just to go on holiday. There is nothing on a child’s passport to say how many parents they have and many children don’t have a father listed on their birth certificate.

as I said upthread, I regularly took my children out of the country and was never asked anything.

With regard to FGM then parental permission to leave the country won’t prevent it - the parents WANT their daughter to go through this awful practice. Often In “their” country it is not illegal so they believe what they are doing is right - they believe they are doing the best for their daughter to have a good future. 😡. But that is a whole other thread 😞

I often travel to see family without DH. Never been asked once in 14 years (although the kids were asked to confirm who i was once arriving back in Britain). If you have the same surname I wouldn't bother getting permission.

Yes you do.

How do I know this? My half brother's ex wife took their young daughters to Italy for a holiday (where her DP's either moved to or were planning to move to, they're Italian) and he now only sees them on holidays etc.

Yes you do.
Your exH should be aware and give permission
You may be asked to prove it at the airport - you may not
Depends where you fly to

The reason for all this is of course child kidnapping. Then taking child to another country to live blah blah

I took my dd to Florida when she was 13. She lives with me full time but sees her dad often.
I got a letter off him giving his permission- thank god because they asked for it at both airports!
She has the same surname as him but different to mine (we weren't married)
Get it just in case!

@LadyDanburysCane yes of course parents want their daughters to be sold to old men or genitally mutilated- that’s why children should be able to add themselves to a no fly list, without their parents knowing. There should be instructions on how to do this on every school toilet door in the country.

@Natsku in a ideal world a “no fly” register for children would also have a mechanism for dispute, so for example if a judge was satisfied that the parent who wants to travel is doing it in good faith and the other parent is using the system as a tool of abuse then the ban could be lifted. Obviously in this country where absolutely nothing works this would be a disaster but in theory that’s how it could work.

Dutch immigration told me I could be held until they had written permission from DH with copy of his passport when travelling with 2 DC. Fortunately let us though but we should have filled in a form. On return via Eurostar British immigration asked for our relationship (different surnames) but were happy with verbal confirmation (had copies of birth certificates in case). Was surprised we didn't need to give written permission when DC went on a school trip to Italy.

The issue is that this isn't discussed during divorce. People need to be aware, and to get it all ironed out as part of separating. Yes, there are going to be abusive bastards who use it against their ex, which is terribly sad. But we need to make child trafficking/kidnapping harder.

I mean, seriously, anyone dodgy would surely just bloody forge that anyway. Ridiculous!!

I had to sign a legal document from a solicitor to allow my ex H to take our children abroad. This year I’m taking my grandchildren on holiday and the cruise line insists on a document signed by a notary (at great expense I might add), it’s not easy to forge unless you know a dodgy solicitor.

if you and your child have the same surname you can easily travel without an authorisation from your ex. You just say you are none contact and you have no idea where he is, but carry copies of your child’s birth certificate.
have a great trip.

I took a letter up to DD being 18, we have the same surname but have been briefly questioned a few times. ExH has always been difficult about it. You can get approval from a judge I believe if they won't give permission and there's no valid reason for them not to, but at a cost of course. I always typed up a letter and asked dd or his mother to get him to sign it.

In theory you do - either parent, regardless of whether you have the same name as kids

However neither exh nor I have ever been asked

I really wouldn't take all of the "I've never been asked, you'll be fine advice". Just because something doesn't happen often doesn't mean it doesnt happen, and if you're travelling in Europe on UK passports, you're no longer an EU citizen and are subject to potentially far more and more intensive checks on travel than before.
This can easily include parental permission. EU countries can (And have done) refuse entry to minors without proper permissions.

I've been asked at Heathrow, and while I agree that it's a great idea to have something in place, I could have really easily forged the letter I had written and got his dad to sign. I think it's the idea of "permission" that's difficult rather than the safeguarding side of things maybe.

Completely agree that safety against child trafficking comes first.

however for those of us with abusive EXHs even having to ask for permission extends the abuse. My EXh refused permission as a tool of control: it was only a solicitor’s letter that made him (reluctantly) agree.

since then he has agreed but used it as a means to extend thr abuse. I dread having to ask him ( we have family overseas who I need to visit).

if you have a CAO in place you don’t need permission for up to 28 days. If you don’t, like us, and have an abusive EXH, I found that a solicitor letter that first time really helped.

It can depend on the destination as to how strict they'll be. I have taken DD to Turkey, Spain and Germany without her Dad (we're married now but weren't at the time so different names) and I've taken written permission but never been asked for it. The first time, I got it notarised by a solicitor but when no-one asked for it I decided it was an unnecessary expense.

When my mum and I took my DD abroad a couple of months ago, we were going through security to the gate and there were two ladies checking stuff so I went through first and my daughter was with my mum. The staff member noticed and asked my daughter (5) "Who is this lady?" When she said "Grandma" the lady was satisfied enough to allow them through.