Is it too late? Is there anything I can do?

[SummerDays2020]

This is a very sensitive issue so I don't want to go into too much detail. If anyone can help it would be much appreciated and if there is another board that is good for this topic I'd be grateful to hear that too.

I support a young family member. She is a young mother. She lives in foster care in a mother and baby placement. I thought she was doing well. However, she told me she failed her 'parent assessment'. I was shocked as I can see her child has developed each time I see them. The child is very happy and smiley. I see the mum talking to her child, singing to her, cuddling her.

Things that have been brought up in the report I have never seen - they say the child's clothes do not fit. Every time I see the child they are in suitably sized clothes, mum sends me photos most days and child always well dressed and I also see SM photos. They say she doesn't encourage the child but again that is not my experience. I just don't understand. They also say the mum is regressive. I'm not quite sure what they are refering to or what the issue is. Is this enough for them to take the child away?

Mum is devestated. She was in foster care herself and lacked a mother as a role model. However, I honestly believe with some support she can be a very good mother to her child. She doesn't take drugs, she went out on her birthday and had a drink but doesn't usually go out, she doesn't shout or hit her child, she cooks her healthy meals, bathes her and puts her to bed and buys her toys appropriate to her age.

Is there anything I can offer to do that could help? How can I best support her? I'm worried sick.

@Circleofshells they might use something like a PAMS but that will depend on the case. If the case has gone to PLO then at that point there will have been a discussion regarding what assessments are needed. If it hasn't gone to PLO then dramatic comments about the mother and child being ripped apart are completely irrelevant.

I'm sorry that comment is completely uncalled for. I've been doing nothing but reflecting on the situation for the last few weeks. My job involves me reflecting on a daily basis too, so fine at reflecting, thanks.

People are posting on here to help and support a vulnerable young woman and your response is
I suggest you take that attitude into all of the meetings with SS and see how it goes.

I think that says much more about you than it does me. As you have already said you are unable to give any advice, so if that is the case then perhaps stop posting?

I doubt they will care either way about the tattoo, I mentioned it because you had seemingly used it as an example of her making a good parenting choice. If you want to illustrate her being a good parent able to prioritise her child's needs then that is simply not a good example.

At no point have you acknowledged that the mother in question is anything other than a stellar parent, that is what I mean about a lack of reflection.

This thread should be about the best outcome for the child, that is where you and SS have completely different foci, they are focussed on the child, you are focussed on the mother. That's fine and everybody needs an advocate, but their priority should always be the child.

To be honest my DC follow this as a normal pattern when they can! (i.e school holidays!) I agree that it would be beneficial for the DC to get into a routine of waking earlier for once she attends nursery. However, that isn't imminent so isn't being raised as an issue as yet so far. I do know that she was going to bed earlier but recently it has been later (I think a combination of heat and a recent illness). She has recovered from the infection she had now but still not going to bed til later, I think she has just got used to a later routine. It might just seem the best way to mum of her getting a good sleep at the moment. I totally remember this from my eldest.

In terms of meal times, I'm not there to see this. I do see photos of her eating quite a lot at reasonable times. Lots of look how cute DD is with dinner all round her mouth! I phone and she is making lunch etc. When we are together for a picnic she brings a reasonably healthy meal - sandwich, baby crisps, fruit etc. She chooses food at cafes that are suitable. I mean look I'm not there everyday. Maybe like me some days she doesn't have the energy to cook, maybe not every meal is super healthy. She's not perfect - noone is.

So yes, I think some of those things are issues. But perhaps with some support they could be resolved.

I don't know. Children in care seem to experience terrible abuse. If there is some mistake and the mother is genuinely loving it would be a terrible thing to remove a child bonded with their mother and put them into a situation where it's likely they will be abused. If the mother loves her child and is willing to learn I am sure it would be better for the child to support her to make improvements.

Honestly, so much of what they judge her for I do/used to do. And noone called SS on me. But that's because I'm MC, respectable and older than her when I had my DC.

Thank you @Circleofshells . In my day job I work with Nice guidelines and as you say they are very clear. In this situation there seems to be a lot of goalposts moving going on. I'm definitely going to follow this up and see if there are some guidelines I can pin down. Honestly, your support means so much.

Of course if the child can stay with the parent that is the best outcome but that is not always possible. A loving parent can still be a wholly inadequate parent. The myth that children just need to be loved is hugely damaging. Also your assertion that children in care are likely to be abused is not backed up by any evidence. Outcomes for children in care are extremely poor but so are outcomes for children in homes where parenting is not good enough

I don't want to go into this too much as very personal. She was in foster care when pregnant, then after a while had her own flat. She was doing very well, until a bereavement happened that affected her mental health. She went into a mum and baby unit and her mental health is stable now. Unfortunately, due to an incident (caused by someone else) she had to move placement and went to the foster carer.

The father sees the DC at contact centre since the move. Prior to this contact was at his home supervised by a family member.

A loving parent can still be a wholly inadequate parent. The myth that children just need to be loved is hugely damaging.
I did say the mother should be willing to learn if improvements are necessary, not that love on its own is enough. I don't know the statistics, but have met people who grew up in care and many felt they had experienced abuse and neglect in the system. If you think being put into care is preferable to supporting an inadequate parent to be adequate, I just don't know. Some parents may never be adequate, but surely some could learn about good nutrition, hygiene, play etc. It's a shame those sure start centres closed, they were providing just that sort of support.

I think it could be important for social services to know that you are there as her support network and could help her case.

@Eastangular2000 As in patient activation measure?

@Eastangular2000 ah sorry Parent Assessment Manual, too many acronyms

Acronyms are the bane of public services!

I absolutely have not done that. I have acknowledged issues and said myself the mum needs support. What I write on a Mumsnet post is not the entirety of my life. I mean we'd be here all day. Myself and other posters have talked about some very specific issues. Come on, surely you realise that someone posting about a child in danger of being taken into care is obviously coming from a position that there have been issues. But this is a support thread. And your replies have been the opposite of that. I'm looking for help and you've given none, claimed it wasn't possible for anyone to give any support and then been passive aggressive. This is the real life of a young woman and her child. Much loved family members. And you think your sarcastic response was appropriate? It was crass at best, cruel at worst. I get it, you don't want to help. I can't for the life of me fathom why someone would come onto a support thread, with no intention of providing support but just keep posting. I'll be ignoring your posts from now on.

It’s a shame you feel that way. I was merely trying to suggest you look at things more objectively as IME the ‘cheerleading relative’ is easily sidelined whereas if you were able to look at things in a more reflective manner then you would be more likely to facilitate a successful outcome for the child. It’s clear however that you just want everyone to go along with your ‘victimised mother’ and horrible SS narrative.

Absolutely, wherever possible it is best to keep mother and child together. This little girl adores her mum. Mum sent me a video at bed time of them cuddly. The way DD looks at her mum and puts her head on her chest, it's really beautiful. I know that mum is willing to learn because I have seen her progress, where she has changed her behaviour to be a better mum. She listens to advice when I offer it. If as we hope DD will be able to stay with mum then I'm not sure what the next step is but I truly believe with some support she can be the best mum she can be for her little DD.

Closing Sure Start was an absolute travesty.

Just an update: mum has spoken to her solicitor today and it was very helpful. The solicitor has a few avenues where they feel things can objectively be contested. What we have worked out is the angle SW is coming from is to do with mum's mental health and the possibility this could cause harm in the future. We are now able to look at the SWs issues through that lens and see what we can do to show that her mental health is stable and protective factors for the future. We've made a few plans and mum is fully engaging. I'm going to make a few calls tomorrow to hopefully get a few other things in place. Thank you so much, everyone.

Ah ok, that does help a bit. They will be looking for evidence that the young mum is fully understanding of the mental health issues she suffered and has coping strategies and support in place as well as good GP support in case she experiences anything again. This could be exercise and going on walks in the fresh air, eating healthily and checking in on how she's feeling with someone regularly and asking for support whenever she needs it. AS a young care leaver she can ask for extra support as she is entitled to it until 25.

They will also be looking for the young mum having strong boundaries with the baby's father if he has caused any problems in the past and to be aware of healthy relationships to protect herself and her child in future.
Many local authorities and charities run short parenting 'how to cope if' or 'how to deal with terrible two's type online seminars that she could opt into which would all help her show that she fully intends to overcome any challenges she may have. You could be in the background to help her attend these if she is feeling under confident.

The talk of baby going into separate foster care may be because of the fact that at the age of 21 foster care can stop for the young mum unless she has a great set up and both care leaver and foster carer agree to carry it on with the living arrangement. So they may just wish to see your young mum coping in a flat whilst her toddler stays in foster care to make sure it's all working well before baby comes home.

These are all questions you could help your young mum to ask the social workers. There's nothing wrong with her keep asking the social workers 'what can I do to improve?'. It shows she is doing her best. Even if she is already doing her best the SW's need to evidence it all and unfortunately just saying 'she's a great mum and loves her kids' doesn't provide them with the hard evidence they need to record in their reports.

Good luck. I really hope baby and mum can stay together and they both have the support they need. You're a good friend to help with this very difficult stage in a young and very vulnerable persons life. Breaking a baby/mother bond so young should be avoided and support given instead - especially if the mother is open to support.

From my experience, SS are not bothered at all if a child stays with its birth or parents. They threw tonnes of money at my parents to have my children temporarily while they tried to build a case against us that ultimately crumbled because it was all a load of shit. 11 months they tried to take our children away, 5 social workers, 2 were struck off, 1 went on long term sick, one retired after visiting us for 11 minutes and deciding on that visit alone that she didn't think we were suitable parents because I didn't wash my hands immediately after changing a nappy with wee in because I was still dressing said child. Luckily we had great careers and support so we could afford the best lawyers in the area and our families (including my grandmother who is a childrens guardian) who supported us wholeheartedly. They were absolute vermin. Apart from one who was absolutely fantastic and clearly took their job seriously and thought of the childrens needs. But they were new to the job so I'm sure in time they will be corrupted too. I will never support SS again after their own manager sent me a complaints form because of how badly we were treated. Worse than shit on a shoe.

My toddlers nappy can become full in 1-2 hours if he's drinking a lot on a hot day. It doesn't necessarily mean it has been left on indefinitely, of course we change it frequently though but it just isn't always a sign of an unfit parent.

I do agree though sleeping in until said times in the late morning would be a bit strange. Although I wouldn't see it as a danger to a child as long as they are sleeping. My 21 month old sleeps 8-8am most days god knows he just loves to sleep.

My point is, in my experience SS do not always want the child to stay with the parent regardless if the parent is fit for the job or not sadly. It's a cruel cruel thing to have to experience first hand.

Eastangular2000 your comments are so negative and not really giving and solid advice to the situation so maybe it is best if you say nothing at all as you sound very hostile towards the person asking for support and advise. So sorry to hear sooo many women have been put through hell because of social workers who did not do their job properly. Am sure there are lots of hard working thoughtful social workers but those that skip corners just to tick a box should be fired as put mums and children through hell. Once they get a plan in place for this young mum and she has mum and baby courses and supports in place she will be fine and op is amazing in helping this young girl and tatooes should not be in issue at all or how a person dresses in this day and age. Keep us posted and hope things all work out ok.

Couldn't agree more with everything you said x