Is it too late? Is there anything I can do?

[SummerDays2020]

This is a very sensitive issue so I don't want to go into too much detail. If anyone can help it would be much appreciated and if there is another board that is good for this topic I'd be grateful to hear that too.

I support a young family member. She is a young mother. She lives in foster care in a mother and baby placement. I thought she was doing well. However, she told me she failed her 'parent assessment'. I was shocked as I can see her child has developed each time I see them. The child is very happy and smiley. I see the mum talking to her child, singing to her, cuddling her.

Things that have been brought up in the report I have never seen - they say the child's clothes do not fit. Every time I see the child they are in suitably sized clothes, mum sends me photos most days and child always well dressed and I also see SM photos. They say she doesn't encourage the child but again that is not my experience. I just don't understand. They also say the mum is regressive. I'm not quite sure what they are refering to or what the issue is. Is this enough for them to take the child away?

Mum is devestated. She was in foster care herself and lacked a mother as a role model. However, I honestly believe with some support she can be a very good mother to her child. She doesn't take drugs, she went out on her birthday and had a drink but doesn't usually go out, she doesn't shout or hit her child, she cooks her healthy meals, bathes her and puts her to bed and buys her toys appropriate to her age.

Is there anything I can offer to do that could help? How can I best support her? I'm worried sick.

@SummerDays2020 my god this is just heartbreaking. Are there no healthcare professionals who can vouch for the health of the child? Comments on her appearance are outrageous and surely indicative of discrimination. Has she been to the solicitor yet?

The problem is that no one can really advise as we can only see one side of the story. You obviously think she is doing a great job but we have no idea if your judgement is sound. Your comment about the tattoo was interesting, the fact that you viewed that as a positive that was worth comment suggests to me you may be looking through a different lens than SS. I find it hard to believe that she is is being told to change her clothes if all she is wearing is t shirt and jeans. How old is the child? It is not usual for young children to be in bed half the morning, which may mean there are queries as to what time the child is going to bed etc.

I think she is speaking to her solicitor now.

So the accusation that she leaves her in soiled nappies comes from a report by a doctor when she took her because she had been constipated. How can a doctor see DC on one occasion and come to that conclusion? She'd travelled on a bus to get to the appointment and she could well have needed a nappy change. But to get from that, that she is always left in soiled nappies is a bit of a reach isn't it? Especially if there is no hint of nappy rash?

Do you feel the comments on her appearance are inappropriate?

We don'y know if the comments on here appearance are inappropriate as we don't know the context.

Telling her not to wear a t shirt and jeans and to wear 'mum' clothes =inappropriate

Noting that she is spending 30-40 mins straightening her hair and getting ready every morning and leaving the child in bed/unsupervised = could well be appropriate

@SummerDays2020 some resources at this link.Rights of Women I don’t know if I have any good advice, but i think I would contact everyone and anyone who would listen. Local representatives, local charities, citizens advice etc. once it becomes someone else’s issue, someone with power they will at least be forced to be more rigorous to justify decisions. If she hasn’t looked into it already she needs to find out what the appeals process is for her local authority and make a complaint, followed by an appeal. She or you might need to be fairly persistent and be sure to put any conversations into writing.

Leaving a baby in bed until mid morning would press a worry button for me, sorry. Plus a soggy nappy noticed by a dr after just one bus journey. Its a desperately sad situation but SS financially would far rather a child stay with its birth parents, let alone emotionally. I hope the right decision is made for the baby's sake.

@SummerDays2020 yes I can’t imagine a circumstance under which passing comment on her appearance would be appropriate. Unless the “appearance” was that of being in an intoxicated state or evidence of appearing to be unable to maintain basic personal hygiene. There seems to be a disconnect here, I would have thought that the threshold for removing a child from care would need to be far higher. Did the doctor say the child was underweight for their age? Surely if this is the case the next move would be to put together a plan to ensure the young mother has the support she needs to feed better.
She should be able to request the medical notes from that doctor and any other relevant appointments. Is there a health visitor involved? Perhaps these notes need to be requested too. Request everything that’s written down by anyone

But the tattoo is for her, just like clothes. If she'd spent her birthday money on a toy for the child then that is different.

I always find I funny when a poster comes on a thread to say no one can advise when the thread is full of people giving very helpful advice. If you feel unable to advise, no problem but quite clearly others can advise as many have done!

Noone on here is being asked if my judgement is sound. It won't come down to that. It will be if there is proof either side of the argument. I mean that's the point really - a SW may 'judge' the baby doesn't eat enough but if mum has documentation of what her DD has eaten and her weight is documented as normal then that is what counts rather than a subjective 'judgement'.

My point about the tattoo was that many young women would want to get clothes, or jewellery or whatever. She wanted to use her money to show how much she loves her baby. It wasn't an expensive tattoo, just a discrete little tattoo with DC's name. That was her birthday money to spend on herself. She rarely spends any on herself, all goes on her toddler. But it is so important for her to have a bit of self care. I'll be honest my guess is you are being a bit snobby about having a tattoo.

They have said her appearance isn't good. She doesn't know what else to do. So she is going to try clothes that make her look older, maybe more 'respectable'. I've given her some money to get a hair cut too, if nothing more than to improve her self esteem.

DC is a young toddler and as I said the late mornings aren't ideal. But this wasn't even what's been said just that it means he is not being fed enough. Maybe because if it was just a routine issue, mum could be supported to get him in a better routine but not feeding him is more serious. I don't know. But I'll continue to support her to find ways that really show what she is doing. I found a toddler cookbook to give her. Maybe if they see she is doing recipes from it, as well as DD getting involved so she is seen to be encouraging her, it will help. Mum will jump through any hoop if it means she can keep her baby.

The minute social workers are involved the rules change. You can see this by the fact she is being held to high standards I suspect a social worker wouldn't think a small tattoo is a good use of judgement and resources.

I meant she/her - not that DC's sex really matters!

Well you seem very convinced of your own infallibility and unable to be reflective in any way. I suggest you take that attitude into all of the meetings with SS and see how it goes.

No, it is not the second. It is them saying she doesn't look good enough. She honestly looks like many young mums, ripped jeans, vest top and hair in a mum bun.

Thank you. I will get onto phone calls tomorrow.

She's not leaving her in bed as in just not getting her up. Her DD is asleep til then. Yes, it would be good to get her in a better routine. But I absolutely remember having phases with my toddlers where they wouldn't fall asleep til late and then have a late morning.

Well, surely it depends on the length of the journey? But one soggy nappy and no nappy rash, surely doesn't show baby is left in soiled nappies all the time. I suspect if she was constipated there was some of the leakage DC can get from that.

And yes, I truly hope the right decision is made too.

@SummerDays2020 or anyone else on this thread, are there official standards/guidelines/tools that are used in this sort of decisioning making? I’m thinking something like the NICE Guidelines on clinical decision making or similar?

I have to say I am struck by the standards this young woman is being held to, I would have thought there needs to be significant evidence of neglect or abuse to remove a child from the care of their mother.

I’m truly horrified. of course it’s always possible there’s a whole other side to this story but if it’s even close to accurate this strikes me as a scandal. A major one at that. Some elements of the parenting choices mentioned may be less than ideal, but I doubt I can think of a single parent I wouldn’t say that of, foster care is a massive step.

We have no idea what standards she is being held to as we have not had view of the parenting assessment. All we have is the secondhand reports of a well meaning family member/friend.

There are multiple standards frameworks and guidelines that are used, social workers don't just wander around making things up off the top of their head. In order for a child to be removed social care have to produce reams of evidence that is then considered by a court.

It is not clear whether the mother and child have been in foster care since the babies birth or whether it is a more recent intervention. If it is since birth we are talking about a parent who has been assessed as not being able to parent independently over a matter of years if it is a more recent placement then thequestion is what happened to trigger the mother and child being placed in a foster placement, what were the concerns that led to the placement being sought?

Not waking until mid morning seems very unusual, Might that mean she is not putting child to bed early enough. having a routine, disturbed sleep, or otherwise unwell? Is the food she offers a balanced diet at regular mealtimes?

But isn’t that the beauty of your first child under a year old - you can sleep when they sleep , no early starts, no school runs and you can still implement a routine once they are awake

I feel this woman is being judged harshly against unattainable parenting goals

“We have no idea what standards she is being held to as we have not had view of the parenting assessment. All we have is the secondhand reports of a well meaning family member/friend.”

In healthcare and some parts of social care there will be specific standards and frameworks which must be used in this sort of decision-making. However, a quick glance at the uk research literature on this shows there have in fact been serious concerns raised in multiple reports around the robustness, evidence-base, and consistency of social worker decision making in recent years. So my question still stands, to people with expertise in the area, has this been remedied? Are there now NICE standard guidelines for this context? If so, it would be great if someone can link to this

“There are multiple standards frameworks and guidelines that are used, social workers don't just wander around making things up off the top of their head. In order for a child to be removed social care have to produce reams of evidence that is then considered by a court.”
You May think “they don’t walk around making things up off the top of there head” but they are undoubtedly as vulnerable to bias and poor judgement as any other health or social care professional would be. This is why such guidelines exist and the most competent professionals will refer to them often. As such, it’s appropriate to ask what standards and guidelines are be enacted so that people supporting this young woman can evaluate if these standards are being fairly applied or if there may be grounds for appeal/complaint.

“ It is not clear whether the mother and child have been in foster care since the babies birth or whether it is a more recent intervention. If it is since birth we are talking about a parent who has been assessed as not being able to parent independently over a matter of years if it is a more recent placement then thequestion is what happened to trigger the mother and child being placed in a foster placement, what were the concerns that led to the placement being sought?“

Yes, you’re right it’s not clear, that’s why by raising these questions and considerations we are all hopefully helping @SummerDays2020 to navigate this situation as well as possible. If she can get the answer to these, and arm herself with knowledge then there’s a chance she can be an even better support to the young woman in question.

Do you mind me asking why your friend was placed in a mother/baby foster placement? If her baby is now a toddler what has happened since the baby was born? Is there a reason why she wasn't placed in her own social housing flat?
As a care leaver and with a baby she would ordinarily be a high priority for housing.

Did something happen which made her social workers feel she or the baby were particularly vulnerable/at risk? Is the father in the picture at all, or was he in the past?

Sorry for questions - just trying to build a picture as to the chain of events that have made social workers make these decisions so far. It could give a clue as to what they wish to see to see 'progress'.

Yes, I understand. Hopefully after speaking with the solicitor we'll have more of an idea of the actual issues. Apparently the child's weight is fine for their age. Hmm, I'm not sure about a health visitor, I would have thought there would be? I'll find out. Yes, I think this a good idea. It seems a lot needs to be picked apart to find out whether these are just baseless claims or if there is more to it.

I don't know what you mean? The money wasn't to be spent on the DC it was for her. It is important she practices self care for herself too. Yes, the tattoo was for her, but it was something showing her love for her DC.

oops sorry - cross posted - just saw that someone else is asking about previous events too

That's interesting. I'm about as 'respectable' as they come and I have my DC's names tattooed.

Genuinely, would you mind elaborating for me why it wouldn't be good judgement - in what way?
In terms of resources this was an amount of money she had been given for her birthday to spend on herself. Do you think they would think she should have spent in on her DC or on basic bits for herself, perhaps?

There's been no comment on the tattoo so far but just pre-empting if anything is said.