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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Am I encouraging exclusion at holiday club?

157 replies

HolidayClubFriends · 30/07/2022 15:35

DD (aged 8) goes to a holiday club.

There’s a girl there whose in her class and goes to an activity with her. We’ll call her S.

For context both S and DD have SN, this is not a club specifically for those with SN but they are very inclusive and DD loves it.

DD has also made friends with a group of other children there, there’s 4 of them in this group, a mixture of boys and girls. None of them go to her school but one goes to an activity DD does (not the same one S does).

On Tuesday when DD was there she said S wanted her to herself all day and got upset if she tried to play with the group. DD says one of the boys and one of the girls in the group invited both DD and S to play but S cried because she wanted DD to herself so DD stayed with S all day.

On Wednesday I told DD that as long as she wasn’t deliberately leaving S out she was ok to play with the group if she wanted to. I told her to invite S to play with them or ask the group if S can join them but if S says no or that she just wants DD to play with then she does not have to play with just S if she wants to play with the group. I also emailed the holiday club leader (HCL) and said that DD wanted to play with this group but I’d told her to include other children. HCL emailed back and said she'd make sure everyone was included but that DD could play with her group of friends.

Wednesday night I got a Facebook message from S’s mum saying S was upset because she’d wanted to play with just DD all day and DD had been playing with the other group and could I ask DD to play with just S please.

I didn’t reply to the message but did email the HCL just to check that DD hadn’t left S out, she came back and said she’d encouraged a group including DD to include S but S hadn’t wanted to play with them. She didn’t say anymore than that. I forwarded the message in the next email and just said that this was S’s mums view and if my DD was bullying or excluding S I wanted to know. She replied and said that DD had wanted to play with the group and S but S didn’t want to play with the group.

On Thursday I got another message from S’s mum to say that DD not playing with S is bullying and she’s going to ask the HCL to keep the girls together in a pair so they can “sort out their differences” I replied to say DD had said she’d wanted to play with all her friends and invited S to play, S’s mum then said that S only likes to play with one other child at a time and she’s chosen DD. Apparently next week DD will only be allowed to play with S.

AIBU to tell DD to play with the group of friends if she wants to? Or am I encouraging her to exclude S?

I don’t know what to do.

DDs SN isn’t autism or adhd but she does struggle socially, she tries to make friends wherever she can and I’m so pleased she has a small group at holiday club as none of her classmates are there. She's there 3 days a week while I work so I want her to be happy and to want to go.

So who is UR?

OP posts:

MarinoRoyale · 30/07/2022 19:47

Dibbydoos · 30/07/2022 18:25

Think some of the posters are missing the point. They're dealing with S as if she does not have SN. She cannot play with the others, it's not a choice. Her SN means she cannot do it.

Your DD is not bullying btw I would put S's mum completely straight on that point. She has sent S to a play group where S will find it hard to fit in because of her SN so she needs to reflect on that not your DD.😤 I hate how the word bullying is so banded about these days 🤬

If is was me, I'd ask DD to play with S but be very sociable with the other friends she has met. I would also ask her to explain that S can't play with a group larger than 1 person. I would ask her to encourage S to allow one big group play just to see how she gets on. None of us grew unless we are out of our comfort zone.

Good luck.

Have you missed the part when the OP’s DD also has SN? And the part where she’s 8 years old - totally inappropriate to suggest she takes in some level of responsibility to manage the situation beyond what’s been tried already.

ldontWanna · 30/07/2022 21:03

User367259791 · 30/07/2022 19:04

I agree with @Anotherdayanotherdisappointment by the way, S’s mum is wrong but there kind of isn’t a “right” in her situation. Thank you for being much kinder and more understanding than some of these replies.

Sure there is. Or at least things she could attempt. Like encouraging her DD to try and join in with the others or at least add another person to her and OP's DD. She could've messaged OP and thank her for her DD's kindness and suggest some games /activities that would make her DD more likely to join in. She could ask NICELY if OP's DD could share her time.that maybe OP's DD can try and play with her daughter for a little bit , then either go off or try to incorporate others in their play. She could message the club leader and ask for support to help her DD join in, or organise some things as a group that would be easier for her DD to manage, or start something and then add more kids in the mix. Worst case scenario, she can pick a different activity that is more suited to her needs.

What she can't do, is demand that an 8 yo who has her own struggles must dedicate her whole time to her daughter and expect her to manage her needs.

TrashyPanda · 30/07/2022 23:40

Dibbydoos · 30/07/2022 18:25

Think some of the posters are missing the point. They're dealing with S as if she does not have SN. She cannot play with the others, it's not a choice. Her SN means she cannot do it.

Good luck.

I think you are missing the point that OPs little girl has SN. And that she has a speech difficulty. And that she is only 8.

she wants to play with other children, and she should be allowed to do so.

she is careful not exclude S, invites her to play. She sounds totally lovely and very kind.

it’s totally unreasonable to expect any more from her.

It is certainly not her place to explain about S to anyone. It is up to S’s mother to encourage her child to play with others.

you seem to think OPs DD has some sort of obligation to S, and that S’s feeling and wants are more important than her own. They are not.

wellhelloitsme · 30/07/2022 23:48

Well said @TrashyPanda

Hmm1234 · 31/07/2022 18:09

It sounds like the friends mom is trying to control you and DD to be ‘best friends’ and exclude others. It’s really not fair but common to claim ‘bullying’ because your child for once didn’t want to be stuck to the other child

exaltedwombat · 31/07/2022 18:09

I wonder if S was persuaded to attend this club on the promise that 'your special friend will be there'? Now her mum's in a panic because S is refusing to attend without the security of a 'special friend', and this is catastrophic for her child-care arrangements.

Of course she mustn't try to bully you. But you must communicate.

Original poster

HolidayClubFriends · 31/07/2022 18:23

exaltedwombat · 31/07/2022 18:09

Of course she mustn't try to bully you. But you must communicate.

@exaltedwombat S and DD don't talk to each other at school from what I can tell, they have their own friends.

It's one of those clubs that takes from multiple schools and has multiple venues so there's no way of knowing if friends will be there or not.

DD really likes meeting new people, but due to her speech delay she struggles with groups as she often misunderstands things. I've been lucky with this club as they've always encouraged DD at her own pace. The HCL is brilliant, when DD started a few years ago she asked so many questions and I thought she'd say no to having DD there but she was really happy to have DD and DDs loved every second of it.

I might suggest to S's mum that she speak to the HCL about working at S's pace actually.

OP posts:

Redshell1976 · 31/07/2022 18:28

Your DD has the right to play with anyone and everyone that she chooses, as long as she includes S or at least invites her and is kind in any dealings with her, that is more than enough. S or her mum have no right to expect DD to play with her alone. Quite frankly S’ mum needs to get over it, she has no right to ask the HCL to put them both together, your DD can socialise as she feels she needs to. It’s situations like this than can upset kids significantly, this is supposed to be fun for DD not an obligation.

2022again · 31/07/2022 19:12

sometimes it's worth remembering that SN children can sometimes have SN parents ( i'm thinking more ASD here) so an adult might not see their request as being out of the ordinary!!! Plus the added difficulty that we all have when our kids come back home and tell us what went on at school/club etc...we can all have blindspots and see our own child's needs as being something others have to adapt to rather than a compromise being made...but agree it's not your issue other than do what you are already doing which is raising your own child to be kind and considerate to others and to be able to deal with making wider friendships. Most of us have had to deal with certain kids trying to cast "ownership" over friends or social situations, i think it's fairly common with girls.

Trying20 · 31/07/2022 19:21

This reply has been withdrawn

This post has been withdrawn by the OP

vanilli78 · 31/07/2022 19:42

Sounds very much like a situation we’re in at the moment..little boy trying to isolate my boy from his friends as he wants to be his only friend. Such a difficult situation as the mother seems to think it’s ok. I’ve just told my boy to keep playing with his friends and include the other boy but not to be segregated from his other friends by him. Told him not to leave the boy out, and it’s ok to play alone with him sometimes if he wants, but not to be isolated by him. My boy is 7 if this helps.

Devora13 · 31/07/2022 19:44

It's very sad for S, obviously she is one of those SEN children who struggle with friendships. Where the bullying comes in, from what you have said, is S's mother trying to dictate to you, and your daughter, who she can and can't play with. If S funds it so difficult to mix with others, maybe this isn't the club for her. If would be great if the leaders could support and encourage S to join in with others, but it's unlikely they have enough resources to give this kind of 1:1 support.

celticprincess · 31/07/2022 19:45

Sounds like my DD all through primary school. She’s autistic. Issues with lots of friends and only managing to play with one at a time and being overwhelmed by more than one child. Various members of her friend group were wanting exclusivity as well as she couldn’t cope. Fast forward to secondary school and it’s still the same however several of the other girls have now been diagnosed with ASD. This does explain all of the issues. I do get the friends’ parents messaging me saying their child is being excluded when mine has chosen to hang out with a different group. I’ve just said I can’t force them to play together. I’m forever on the phone/email to pastoral as my dd gets accused of bullying/excluding others and I know she doesn’t but each child has their own version and each parent has their own expectation. No words of wisdom. If the HCL can back you up about your DD not bullying the other child then it’s the parent who also has issues.

whynotwhatknot · 31/07/2022 19:50

she will not only be playing with s from next week

according to who the mum? i would have replied once again i will not tell dd who she will be playing with if she wants to play withothers or with s thats fine stop pushing this

AutieAdult · 31/07/2022 20:19

S’s mum is completely out of order and bullying. Your DD and you are doing everything properly. Some great suggested replies here.

separately I’m so sad for S because I am a bit like her (but with no child diagnosis) I really hope she gets social support (not through your daughter or any other child Bing forced or coerced to play.

BeeAFreeBird · 31/07/2022 20:23

This all sounds a bit toxic to me - the behaviour of S’s mum that is. It’s mildly coercive and definitely controlling.

I think you need to be explicit and keep standing firm on your daughters right to choice (as long as no ones excluded).

S’s playing preferences aren’t your daughters responsibility or weight to carry. You’re right to stand up for her needs.

I’d consider speaking to those in charge about avoiding the pairing. It locks your daughter into an unhealthy situation.

And there’s a strong risk here that she will become isolated when she should be free to benefit from the socialisation exposure.

Be kind and thoughtful but set boundaries and stand firm. Perhaps the leaders can advise on boundaries with S’s mum.

pollymere · 31/07/2022 20:35

Your DD isn't encouraging the other kids to exclude S so it's not bullying. We are allowed to choose who we're friends with. This sort of thing really bugs me as S is being taught that friendship is an automatic entitlement and that she has some right to your DD continual company. Tell S Mum that you've taught your child not to negotiate with terrorists 😂.

Janemain · 31/07/2022 20:41

It sounds like the other parent has forgotten that your child is an individual with her own needs and wishes.

I have a now teenager with additional needs and I have always tried to give her as much support as I can, but always with the gentle message that she needs to find a way to make herself 'world shaped' because the the world is not always going to be 'Robyn shaped.' Not her real name.

Although we went through some real emotional times, at almost 16 now she still struggles but has quite a lot of advice to give her friends when they are teenage tantruming which is quite brilliant.

Sounds like you are doing a grand job you your DD.

ACOTARlove · 31/07/2022 21:14

As a parent of a 9 year old DD with Developmental Language Disorder I know exactly how you are feeling about your DD making new friends and being accepted into a group she wants to be in and want her. I’m guessing that sometimes you need to be your DDs voice to make sure her feelings and needs are clear to those working with her - I’d make it very clear to HCL that it’s not an option for your DD to only be with one child and you don’t even want her to know it’s something that’s come up as it can be very confusing for a child which language difficulty to understand social situations. It’s lovely she has managed to make friends out of school.

IndiaRose22 · 31/07/2022 21:39

Hope your DD has a lovely day tomorrow playing with who she wants to play with. I'd definitely let HCL know that you do not want DD to be forced to be with only S and that she should continue to choose who she socialises with.

SunshineLaughter · 31/07/2022 21:39

@HolidayClubFriends I just want to give your daughter a big old cuddle because my son is going through something similar. He has a speech impediment but is very friendly and gets on easily with most however he has one friend who is extremely possessive of him. My son is "not allowed" to play with others. Other child has behavioural issues. Spoke to the teachers and they're keeping an eye on the situation. Thank goodness it's summer and we have a bit of a break. I'm doing play dates with other children from his class in the hopes that he will move away from this child. Sorry if tmi but I know how you feel.

Somethingneedstochange · 31/07/2022 22:05

Your daughter is there to progress in her social skills as well. The club should be encouraging S to join in with all children. They could encourage her to play with each child individually first. It's not fair to put that reasonsibilty on one child.

StClare101 · 31/07/2022 22:45

S’s mum is crazy. I would mute her messages and at drop off make it very clear to the holiday club that your daughter is free to play with whoever she chooses.

Bonheurdupasse · 31/07/2022 22:50

lilyboleyn · 30/07/2022 15:41

Well quite clearly S’s mother is batshit crazy.
if I were you, I’d send one more message to the holiday club saying you and S’s mother have had a disagreement because she is trying to enforce your DD from playing only with S. let them know that you’d be very upset should DD be kept away from the other group, but you wanted them to know that things aren’t good with S’s mother. End.

Another one saying please do this OP.
It needs to be in the open.

MrsLighthouse · 01/08/2022 00:38

Has the mother got SN ? That’s totally bizarre and controlling ..don’t engage and encourage your DD to choose her own friends !

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