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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Am I encouraging exclusion at holiday club?

157 replies

HolidayClubFriends · 30/07/2022 15:35

DD (aged 8) goes to a holiday club.

There’s a girl there whose in her class and goes to an activity with her. We’ll call her S.

For context both S and DD have SN, this is not a club specifically for those with SN but they are very inclusive and DD loves it.

DD has also made friends with a group of other children there, there’s 4 of them in this group, a mixture of boys and girls. None of them go to her school but one goes to an activity DD does (not the same one S does).

On Tuesday when DD was there she said S wanted her to herself all day and got upset if she tried to play with the group. DD says one of the boys and one of the girls in the group invited both DD and S to play but S cried because she wanted DD to herself so DD stayed with S all day.

On Wednesday I told DD that as long as she wasn’t deliberately leaving S out she was ok to play with the group if she wanted to. I told her to invite S to play with them or ask the group if S can join them but if S says no or that she just wants DD to play with then she does not have to play with just S if she wants to play with the group. I also emailed the holiday club leader (HCL) and said that DD wanted to play with this group but I’d told her to include other children. HCL emailed back and said she'd make sure everyone was included but that DD could play with her group of friends.

Wednesday night I got a Facebook message from S’s mum saying S was upset because she’d wanted to play with just DD all day and DD had been playing with the other group and could I ask DD to play with just S please.

I didn’t reply to the message but did email the HCL just to check that DD hadn’t left S out, she came back and said she’d encouraged a group including DD to include S but S hadn’t wanted to play with them. She didn’t say anymore than that. I forwarded the message in the next email and just said that this was S’s mums view and if my DD was bullying or excluding S I wanted to know. She replied and said that DD had wanted to play with the group and S but S didn’t want to play with the group.

On Thursday I got another message from S’s mum to say that DD not playing with S is bullying and she’s going to ask the HCL to keep the girls together in a pair so they can “sort out their differences” I replied to say DD had said she’d wanted to play with all her friends and invited S to play, S’s mum then said that S only likes to play with one other child at a time and she’s chosen DD. Apparently next week DD will only be allowed to play with S.

AIBU to tell DD to play with the group of friends if she wants to? Or am I encouraging her to exclude S?

I don’t know what to do.

DDs SN isn’t autism or adhd but she does struggle socially, she tries to make friends wherever she can and I’m so pleased she has a small group at holiday club as none of her classmates are there. She's there 3 days a week while I work so I want her to be happy and to want to go.

So who is UR?

OP posts:
CharlotteOH · 30/07/2022 17:47

S, and her mum, are being controlling and manipulative. It is your daughter, and you, who are being bullied.

Putting the SN to the side for a moment, this kind of “only play with me” manipulative controlling is absolutely classic female age 7-8 behaviour and S needs to be coached out of it. It sounds like you’re supporting DD and managing the awkwardness of it all very well.

Both S and her mum sound like selfish unpleasant people, if I were you I’d ditch them or at least encourage Dd to have a much wider circle of friends.

MeridianB · 30/07/2022 17:54

It sounds like your DD has made great progress this summer socially. It would a real shame to stop/limit that.

Lots of good examples of what to send S’s mum. And yes, speak to the club again.

what would S do if your DD wasn’t at this club?

greatblueheron · 30/07/2022 18:14

Gilmorehill · 30/07/2022 16:36

I work in a school and these situations happen quite frequently. Sometimes it happens with a child who doesn’t have the social skills to cope with groups. However when you then get a parent insisting that their dc cling to one chosen friend, it can get very difficult. If the other child resists, the parent accuses them of bullying. If the school contradicts this, they are accused of not caring about the child. It happens over and over again and the loser is the child who just needs nurturing.

We have the same problem at our school. It's difficult when the parents feel entitled to demand that the child their child 'picks' to play with should be required to do so. And shout to any and all about how their child is being excluded and bullied because obviously, schools cannot require a child to play with them individually if they don't want to. it's really hard to manage.

MajorCarolDanvers · 30/07/2022 18:16

Is ask the holiday club to sort it out.

Parents trying to micro manage 8 year old friendships from afar is not great.

Bookshadow · 30/07/2022 18:20

I could have written this only our problem is with a girl at school who had chosen our DD. I worried about it and messed about with being polite for years. I should have said 'fuck off' from the outset and saved my DD a lot of anxiety.

Tinkywinkywoo · 30/07/2022 18:21

@Bookshadow

how did you resolve it in the end?!

WonderingWanda · 30/07/2022 18:23

Urgh, S's Mum sounds like a real pain. I've always told my kids that someone is still their friend even if they play with someone else and in that situation they should also try and make new friends. Your daughter has done nothing wrong and this is most definitely not bullying.

"S is most welcome to join in playing with dd and her friends, as dd has encouraged her to do. It is important to include everyone. However, I won't be dictating to her that she has to play with your child in particular. I sympathise that your daughter does not like this but quite frankly find your suggestion that dd isn't allowed to play with anyone else and that it is bullying quite offensive and controlling. '

Dibbydoos · 30/07/2022 18:25

Think some of the posters are missing the point. They're dealing with S as if she does not have SN. She cannot play with the others, it's not a choice. Her SN means she cannot do it.

Your DD is not bullying btw I would put S's mum completely straight on that point. She has sent S to a play group where S will find it hard to fit in because of her SN so she needs to reflect on that not your DD.😤 I hate how the word bullying is so banded about these days 🤬

If is was me, I'd ask DD to play with S but be very sociable with the other friends she has met. I would also ask her to explain that S can't play with a group larger than 1 person. I would ask her to encourage S to allow one big group play just to see how she gets on. None of us grew unless we are out of our comfort zone.

Good luck.

Hankunamatata · 30/07/2022 18:32

S mum is deluded. I can't imagine messaging a parent and telling them to force my child just to play with their child (my children have sen).

I wouldn't communicate any more with parent and go via the scheme leader. Keep telling dd to do as she is doing playing with everyone and inviting everyone. It could become a very toxic friendship if dd is isolated

BeanieTeen · 30/07/2022 18:32

If is was me, I'd ask DD to play with S but be very sociable with the other friends she has met. I would also ask her to explain that S can't play with a group larger than 1 person. I would ask her to encourage S to allow one big group play just to see how she gets on. None of us grew unless we are out of our comfort zone.

Sorry, but I think this is completely inappropriate. OP’s DC is a child, it is not her job encourage anything. She is absolutely not responsible for S and how well she handles social interaction.

OP speak to the staff at the holiday club. They - the adults - are the ones who should be speaking to S and helping her. Not your DD.

godmum56 · 30/07/2022 18:33

Dibbydoos · 30/07/2022 18:25

Think some of the posters are missing the point. They're dealing with S as if she does not have SN. She cannot play with the others, it's not a choice. Her SN means she cannot do it.

Your DD is not bullying btw I would put S's mum completely straight on that point. She has sent S to a play group where S will find it hard to fit in because of her SN so she needs to reflect on that not your DD.😤 I hate how the word bullying is so banded about these days 🤬

If is was me, I'd ask DD to play with S but be very sociable with the other friends she has met. I would also ask her to explain that S can't play with a group larger than 1 person. I would ask her to encourage S to allow one big group play just to see how she gets on. None of us grew unless we are out of our comfort zone.

Good luck.

no I am sorry but as the OP has said DD also has her social problems to deal with....and even if she hasn't, she is a child and not the play supervisor. She is entitled to choose where and how she plays without being pressurised to be responsibnle for another child's needs.

CallOnMe · 30/07/2022 18:33

The trouble is with SN children is they often struggle to find friendships and tend to bond to just one or two other children.
So although I do feel sorry for the friend it’s completely unfair to not let her make new friends.

I would be talking to friends mum and setting her straight (in a nice way) that you want your DD to make new friends sbd you’re going to encourage it but also that she should be encouraging her DD too.

Just because they make more friends it doesn’t mean they’ll fall out with their current friends and when I was in school one of our us would make friends with someone new and then we’d all get to know them and all be friends.

I would definitely speak to the leader and tell them about friends mums worries and that you want to encourage new friendships as long as she’s not leaving other friend out.

deedledeedledum · 30/07/2022 18:35

OP, what was the outcome?

LAMPS1 · 30/07/2022 18:39

Maybe the other mum was just clinging on to the hope that her own dd would gain confidence from a little bit more time with your dd. She does sound pretty desperate about it all. Maybe she felt that S was just on the verge of a breakthrough in the tiny steps that make up social development. However sad it is for her, she must understand that your dd might be in the same position albeit just be a couple of steps ahead, - branching out socially and gaining in confidence to play with others. In any case, your dd must not be burdened with the responsibility for S and the limitations this would bring to her own play development.
A knock back is hard for any child. You and your dd are being kind and understanding which is great.
i wonder if it’s possible that you and your dd could invite S over to play for an hour or so, just the two of them, and over tea you could gently talk to them about friendships and all the group playing together sometimes at holiday club. Maybe S needs to hear the idea framed in a much more positive and exciting way than her mum is used to doing.

Titsflyingsouth · 30/07/2022 18:41

I have a kid with ASD who can behave a bit like S. He can get very possessive of friends. We are (slowly) trying to teach him that being a good friend means sharing friends and giving friends space when they need it. Not easy but we keep plugging away.

I think S's Mum is totally BU tbh. No child should be obliged to play with another, and only another, 100% of the time. And it's healthier for kids socially to forge multiple friendships. So long as DD is not giving S the cold shoulder and still trying to include her within a broader group, then she's really doing nothing wrong.

What would probably help would be for the HCL to discuss with S's mum some strategies to either help S feel more confident and secure around the other kids, or strategies to help her cope with her emotions when your DD is playing with others.

Thehop · 30/07/2022 18:43

”hi, we’ve had list of talks about this both at home and with club leaders. Dd hs finally found confidence in a group and is doing her best to include S. o understand s prefers one on one which is fine of course! I have, however, told dd thy she does not ‘belong’ to s and is absolutely free to ply with a new group of friends that are being welcoming to a should she change her mind. Please don’t tell her different as I’m keen to foster her new found confidence. I do hope a decides to join them!”

Beamur · 30/07/2022 18:48

I wouldn't respond to the message. She's not your friend and you don't owe her an explanation or an apology.
Your DD is not a support human to the other child and offering to include her, or playing 1:1 some of the time seems fair enough to me.
Leave it to the club to manage and don't engage with the other parent. She's being unreasonable and wanting only what she sees best for her child. You do the same.

Original poster
HolidayClubFriends · 30/07/2022 18:59

Thanks everyone will chat to the HCL again via email but not reply to S's mum, DDs there again Tuesday so I'll update then.

OP posts:
Imthedamnfoolwhoshothim · 30/07/2022 19:00

Anotherdayanotherdisappointment · 30/07/2022 15:59

S's mum is not "batshit crazy" or "being a dick". As a SN parent myself I totally get how it hurts for your child to feel left out because they cannot cope with group play. And S's mum is trying to help her dd have someone to play with...she's just going about it the wrong way. But navigating SN parenting is impossible at the best of times.

It sounds like you and S's mum are at least acquaintances having each others email addresses? I'd phone S's mum and talk to her. I totally get how she feels but unfortunately she needs to understand that S's social needs are only important to her and S. Your DD being able to form a social group is progress and needs to be encouraged. If you talk about it as development and progress rather than playground politics (she wants to play with x etc.) then I think S's mum is more likely to realise she is unreasonable to hinder a fellow SN child's social development.

No. She really is batshit and deluded. She screw her kid up if she carries on this BS

User367259791 · 30/07/2022 19:02

You’ve done all you could and should. Your approach is good. Keep the open, kind communication with both your daughter and S’s mum.

User367259791 · 30/07/2022 19:04

I agree with @Anotherdayanotherdisappointment by the way, S’s mum is wrong but there kind of isn’t a “right” in her situation. Thank you for being much kinder and more understanding than some of these replies.

Imthedamnfoolwhoshothim · 30/07/2022 19:07

User367259791 · 30/07/2022 19:04

I agree with @Anotherdayanotherdisappointment by the way, S’s mum is wrong but there kind of isn’t a “right” in her situation. Thank you for being much kinder and more understanding than some of these replies.

There is. She can sympathise with her child's wants while educating them that they are wrong to force this and rinse and repeat that they do not get dictate others actions

Sirzy · 30/07/2022 19:26

User367259791 · 30/07/2022 19:04

I agree with @Anotherdayanotherdisappointment by the way, S’s mum is wrong but there kind of isn’t a “right” in her situation. Thank you for being much kinder and more understanding than some of these replies.

There is as a parent and especially as a special needs parent you need to make sure your children know it’s not fair to monopolise another child and that it’s good to have other friends.

Ds is autistic and has massive social issues, all through school his cousin has been around but I have always made it clear that as much as I love their friendship it isn’t on DN to “babysit” or take responsibility for DS. He is his own person and doesn’t need to have his own development limited by having to look after another child.

ClocksGoingBackwards · 30/07/2022 19:39

Think some of the posters are missing the point. They're dealing with S as if she does not have SN. She cannot play with the others, it's not a choice. Her SN means she cannot do it.

No one is missing the point because no one needs to deal with S. OP is not S’s parent, so the impact on S isn’t the basis for the thread.

You say that she cannot play with the others but we don’t know that to be fact. We know she prefers to play 1-1, not that she’s incapable of playing with more than one child. Either way, a holiday club is a good opportunity for S to start to learn to play with larger groups.

Even if it is true that S can only play with one child at a time and that can’t change, no other child has a responsibility to sacrifice their own play so that they can be available to benefit someone else, so the problem is still the same.

mam0918 · 30/07/2022 19:45

Dibbydoos · 30/07/2022 18:25

Think some of the posters are missing the point. They're dealing with S as if she does not have SN. She cannot play with the others, it's not a choice. Her SN means she cannot do it.

Your DD is not bullying btw I would put S's mum completely straight on that point. She has sent S to a play group where S will find it hard to fit in because of her SN so she needs to reflect on that not your DD.😤 I hate how the word bullying is so banded about these days 🤬

If is was me, I'd ask DD to play with S but be very sociable with the other friends she has met. I would also ask her to explain that S can't play with a group larger than 1 person. I would ask her to encourage S to allow one big group play just to see how she gets on. None of us grew unless we are out of our comfort zone.

Good luck.

My DS has SN and cant talk therefore its pretty much impossible to form friendships/play with other kids although they are all polite to him (will hand him things if hes waiting, smile and wave at him etc...) but my DS just play by himself.

He has the most insane imagination and can entertain himself for hours, he does however cling to adult wanting them to 'watch' him play... he cant have that at school though, regardless of if he 'likes' it, same way this kid cant demand OPs child.

I want doesnt always get.

Learning there is more than just you in the world is a lesson every child (even kids with SN) HAVE to learn and by pandering and refusing to teach that you do them a disservice which will make the stuggle more in adulthood (and forming relationships as adults is bloody hard as it is).