Am I encouraging exclusion at holiday club?

[HolidayClubFriends]

DD (aged 8) goes to a holiday club.

There’s a girl there whose in her class and goes to an activity with her. We’ll call her S.

For context both S and DD have SN, this is not a club specifically for those with SN but they are very inclusive and DD loves it.

DD has also made friends with a group of other children there, there’s 4 of them in this group, a mixture of boys and girls. None of them go to her school but one goes to an activity DD does (not the same one S does).

On Tuesday when DD was there she said S wanted her to herself all day and got upset if she tried to play with the group. DD says one of the boys and one of the girls in the group invited both DD and S to play but S cried because she wanted DD to herself so DD stayed with S all day.

On Wednesday I told DD that as long as she wasn’t deliberately leaving S out she was ok to play with the group if she wanted to. I told her to invite S to play with them or ask the group if S can join them but if S says no or that she just wants DD to play with then she does not have to play with just S if she wants to play with the group. I also emailed the holiday club leader (HCL) and said that DD wanted to play with this group but I’d told her to include other children. HCL emailed back and said she'd make sure everyone was included but that DD could play with her group of friends.

Wednesday night I got a Facebook message from S’s mum saying S was upset because she’d wanted to play with just DD all day and DD had been playing with the other group and could I ask DD to play with just S please.

I didn’t reply to the message but did email the HCL just to check that DD hadn’t left S out, she came back and said she’d encouraged a group including DD to include S but S hadn’t wanted to play with them. She didn’t say anymore than that. I forwarded the message in the next email and just said that this was S’s mums view and if my DD was bullying or excluding S I wanted to know. She replied and said that DD had wanted to play with the group and S but S didn’t want to play with the group.

On Thursday I got another message from S’s mum to say that DD not playing with S is bullying and she’s going to ask the HCL to keep the girls together in a pair so they can “sort out their differences” I replied to say DD had said she’d wanted to play with all her friends and invited S to play, S’s mum then said that S only likes to play with one other child at a time and she’s chosen DD. Apparently next week DD will only be allowed to play with S.

AIBU to tell DD to play with the group of friends if she wants to? Or am I encouraging her to exclude S?

I don’t know what to do.

DDs SN isn’t autism or adhd but she does struggle socially, she tries to make friends wherever she can and I’m so pleased she has a small group at holiday club as none of her classmates are there. She's there 3 days a week while I work so I want her to be happy and to want to go.

So who is UR?

You and your DD both sound lovely OP. Trying to include everyone and keep everyone happy. Your DD should continue what she’s doing - playing with the group and encouraging S to join. She absolutely shouldn’t play with only S. The other mother is being controlling and manipulative and it isn’t fair to put that on your DD. She isn’t responsible for S! There are some great suggested replies on here.

Playing with the group will probably help your DD with her speech as she’ll be communicating with a range of kids. The club sounds great for her. Don’t let this silly woman interfere with what your DD is getting out of it. She’s the one doing the bullying, not your lovely DD.

This is quite common sen or not but more difficult when a child has sen. Your DD's friend is quite clingy to her and won't let her be friends with anyone else. It happens a lot.

it sounds like you are doing the right thing. encourage your Dd to play with everyone without excluding S! It doesn't sound like your Dd is leaving her out at all, her friend just wants her all to herself. The mother sounds like a nightmare, she's clearly putting ideas in her daughters head that your Dd can't be friends with anyone else but her.

my Dd has been through similar. She some degree of sen herself (sounds very similar to your Dd tbh) and has a 'best friend' at school who's very clingy. She doesn't like Dd being friends with anyone else and her friends mum has always over encouraged the best friend thing whereas I am more of a play with everyone type of mum but of course she can be close to her friend too!! When Dd has been off ill, I've had her friends mum messaging me asking when she'll be back as her friend can't manage without her. I just always reassure Dd she can play with everyone as long ad she doesn't exclude her friend (which she doesn't!)

it seems easier with boys, never had any issues with my sons friendship groups!

I voted YABU, as you and the other mum sound as bad as each other. I can imagine the eye-rolling that goes on when the leader gets another email asking her to referee.

Eight years old is plenty old enough for your DD to make wise and kind choices. It sounds like she has a good balance between enjoying her new friends and trying to include the other girl, so you should just leave it to her and not engage with the other mum or the leader about this.

Your dd wanting to play with other children as well as S is not bullying.

S demanding that your dd plays with her and nobody else IS bullying.

I agree. She's has approached it with a seriously entitled attitude.

I agree with this.
the other girl’s mum should be explaining to her that she can’t monopolise another child like this. Your dd isn’t a toy !

Wow, the other girl's mum is absolutely batshit. I think you need to put your foot down and stand up for her. Tell her your DD is happy to play with her daughter in the group but she and her mother have absolutely no right to dictate that she is only allowed to play with her and you will not allow her to be forced into it. The mother is the bully here. Talk to the staff about it too.

I agree with every word of this but I’d add in something along the lines of “ Perhaps you, as S’s mother, could encourage S to join in with the others in the club. DD has repeatedly tried to encourage S to join in, as has been witnessed by the club leader. S has refused this, wanting DD to herself. I think it is unfair of you to accuse DD of bullying when it’s clear that S is unwilling to join in”

Did you miss the bit where her DD was accused of being a bully and been informed she would only be playing with the other girl next week? I would absolutely want to know this was happening if I was the group leader.

And she did try to handle it initially but then the FB messages started. So no you're not BU OP

I have a "S" and the mum has handled it quite badly, although it IS hard to see your child feeling like they're being left out (even if they're not - it's still a big feeling for a small person).

In our case - DD struggles to initiate getting herself to play in groups, and can feel like she's being left out when the other kids would include her quite happily - and when this flares up I just message the school staff, ask them to double check and just mention she needs a bit of support getting into a group to play - and at home we practice ways we could ask/invite others to play with her. It IS bloody hard though - however often we explain it and that there's a difference between "they won't play with me" and "they won't play the exact game with the exact people I want" - it still is a toughie to get through!

I think it's down to the Leader to sort out how best to encourage S to integrate with the other kids.

'On Thursday I got another message from S’s mum to say that DD not playing with S is bullying'

no its not, not in any definition of the word bullying

'she’s going to ask the HCL to keep the girls together in a pair so they can “sort out their differences”'

lol the HCL will think shes nuts and will not force a child to be friends with someone to the exclusion of all others.

'S’s mum then said that S only likes to play with one other child at a time and she’s chosen DD'

theres a phrase for that its 'tough shit'

'Apparently next week DD will only be allowed to play with S.'

says who? this other mother? she has zero authority to force your child to do anything

I think you and your DD sound very kind and patient.
S parent is being very irrational.
There are many children like S who need support in understanding that friendship isn’t a one way street and that just because you’re friend isn’t playing the game you want or doing what you want them to do that they don’t like you or are leaving you out. It’s a shame her mum isn’t supporting her with this. Her attitude will just make it more difficult for her DD.
You just need to tell it how it is. S is not being excluded and it is not you’re daughters role to be her 1:1 friend - that’s no one’s role. She is more than welcome to join in with her and the other children. And leave it at that - because what more can you say?

Yanbu. You can be firm with S’s DM. “My dd has not excluded your dd; she has invited her to play with the group. My dd prefers to play with a group, and she has picked the group she would like to play with. My dd will be unhappy if she is not “allowed” to play with her friends. Your dd is very welcome to join in, I hope you can encourage her to do so, because then they can all enjoy the week together.“

S's Mum is being a bully herself. You can't force a child to play with someone exclusively. How ridiculous of her even to suggest that! Her daughter will have to accept that she can't make people do what she wants, whatever her SN situation.

Hi, OP - when you say "Apparently next week DD will only be allowed to play with S", who has said this?
I can't imagine any play leader agreeing to this. Has this come from the nutmeg that is S's mother?
Well done to your DD for getting involved and making new friends!

YANBU!

I'd simply rely that 'dd is really enjoying playing with a group as she doesn't usually at school so I won't be asking her to leave it to play with s, dd I had said that s is very welcome to join in at any stage "

My 6yo boy had this, minus the batshit mum though! We just reiterated that he could play what he wanted to, and his friend didn’t get to decide what he played with. He mostly played with his friend instead though last year, his friend would cry if he went off and played football instead (friend doesn’t want to play football). This year they are in different classes fortunately. So boys do it too!

I’d cease all conversation with the mother

she is trying to bully your child.
and she is treating your DD as if she is a plaything, at the beck and call of her child, rather than a person with feelings.
she should not try to control your child.

It’s lovely that your DD is making new friends and having fun. And being inclusive.

please don’t give this other mother a second thought. Your DD has done nothing wrong. She sounds like a lovely girl

This!

Suggest to S's mum that she discuss the problem with the HCL.

DD is including her but S wants everything on her terms - possibly a bit spoilt, by her mum perhaps. Wouldn't S's mum be better off encouraging S to play with DD and the rest of the group?

S's Mum cannot expect S to have exclusive access to DD.

I wouldn't engage, I would just forward the messages onto the club and tell them you're concerned that dd is being accused of bullying during her time at the club and could they please address it with the mother. I would also say that you are so pleased with how your dd is doing at the club and you want her to continue to be able to play with all the lovely friends she has there.

How do you deal with this situation? My DS has been monopolised by a boy and he follows him everywhere even if he wants to play with other children. Moving classes isn’t an option so I’m considering moving schools for him which is such a shame.