I feel most a peace when sleeping next to my children- too much right ?

[helloteas]

I have two, one is 3 months and the other is two and a half..

I've been keeping away from husband as to not wake him when baby cries as he has very early starts and I've now got used to sleeping with both of them.

When toddler sleeps alone, I don't like it.

It's now also become difficult to have her sleep alone. Last night I put her down alone and she woke up crying.. I'm not sure how to get her used to sleeping alone again..

Any advice ? I can't just sleep with both forever !

@asdfff

I'm not touchy. I just dont agree with your post.

No, I didn't practice cio. We room shared until 2 and 4. Through necessity rather than choice. They definitely slept better on their own

Sleeping arrangements have fuck all to do with love.

STTE and will read back.

Cosleeping is dangerous enough let alone doing it with a baby and a toddler.

I'm a great believer in 24 hour care.

But you do you! 🥰

@asdfff

Aren't the vast majority of parents believers in 24 hour care?

Wtf that has to do with bedsharing I've no idea

None of the co sleepers in this thread have mentioned a firm (new) mattress on the middle of the floor with just bf mum, long hair tied back, no duvet. No pillows. Certainly no dh and definitely no toddlers

Didn't realise we had to mention any of that. Yes of course we take precautions to sleep safely.

Your assertion that all of the research backs up your viewpoint is not correct. You don't seem to be quoting data that singles out safe bed-bedsharing practices. And the stuff about cave people and protecting babies from bears or whatever really shows a level of ignorance. No, those are not the only benefits of sleeping in close proximity to our infants. If you do some wider reading on the subject and approach it with an open mind, there is lots of information out there about the benefits/risks of bed-sharing (including some data that indicates it's actually protective for older babies) and some more up to date studies that isolate safe sleeping practices and data for breastfeeding mothers.

@Outlyingtrout

Even the data that singles out 'safe' co sleeping practices shows it increases the risk of suffocation.

Have a look at the data from the AAP.

Bf may be a protective factor for sids but it can't protect against suffocation/overlay.

None of the alleged benefits were ever worth the risk for me but others are entitled to make their own risk assessments.

I haven’t got time to re-do all of the research I’ve done previously to post links on this thread. You seem to be quoting one study and presenting it as established fact. What you are saying is not reflected in many of the recent(ish) studies I’ve read. If I have time later I’ll try and post some links but it’s certainly not the case that all studies are showing a significant risk from suffocation for breastfed babies who bed-share safely.

@Outlyingtrout

Im not quoting one study. Ive done extensive research too. As have the AAP, NHS etc who all say own bare seep space is safest.

I also didnt say significant.

I said increased.

Because those are the facts

The safest place for a baby to sleep is its own bare sleep space, on its back feet to foot.

That is undeniable. All the evidence shows this.

Now you can argue you can make bed sharing safer. But if you're making it safer than actually lethal (drug/alcohol use, sofa sleeping etc) then it's not really safe. It's just less lethal.

As I said, your own risk assessment to make which will be influenced by bias.

There were no benefits to bed sharing for me so it was never worth the risk, however small.

@Topgub This.

You can make cosleeping safer but never safe.

@PeasOff

Exactly.

You cant remove the biggest risk which is the sleeping adult.

@Topgub * waits for someone to say they never move in their sleep and is a light sleeper *

@PeasOff

Guaranteed lol

I always find it interesting that no one mentions choosing to formula feed as a risk to their child's life. After all, formula feeding increases the risk of SIDS, but plenty of women choose to formula feed and don't come in for the same comments as co-sleepers (and of course they shouldn't as that would be horrible).

There are 101 decisions we make about the safety of our children and none are made in a vacuum. I'm comfortable that cosleeping as we do it is safe and any increase to SIDs risk is negligible and not relevant to our situation with a healthy full term baby, breastfeeding, firm mattress, only me and baby in bed, no loose covers, etc. I also choose to breastfeed as I believe in the health benefits but wouldn't dream of telling those who formula feed that they are risking their children's health, even though it's the same argument as cosleeping, which seems open season for that type of comment.

Also I've read several threads on here lately where people have said they are scared of cosleeping so go and sit on chair or sofa but have then fallen asleep. Ironically by not understanding cosleeping, they are increasing their risk exponentially by falling asleep unplanned sitting on a sofa and chair. The latter scares the living daylights out of me and I coslept with DD1 and am cosleeping with DD2.

UNICEF's guidance to HVs is that being so absolute about no cosleeping can actually put babies at risk because parents make poor decisions when sleep deprived in the middle of the night, and end up on the sofa with a baby on top of them who gets smothered or dies from positional asphyxia (neither of which is SIDs, btw).

www.unicef.org.uk/babyfriendly/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016/07/Co-sleeping-and-SIDS-A-Guide-for-Health-Professionals.pdf

Plenty of good info here.

'IN 2017, 183 BABIES DIED OF SIDS IN THE UK: 0.03% OF ALL BIRTHS7
Previous UK data suggests:
■ around half of SIDS babies die while sleeping in a cot or Moses basket.
■ around half of SIDS babies die while co-sleeping. However, 90% of these babies
died in hazardous situations which are largely preventable.'

We co-sleep with our toddler, I wanted/planned to have him in his own room/cot by now, but he hates being alone and I don't sleep as well without his warm little body cuddled up to me... that and I think he loves the all night boob buffet.
Wouldn't change it for the world now.

If you're enjoying it OP stick with it, they aren't little forever

@Hugasauras

Oh god

Not that ridiculous, terribly biased, infographic

🤣

@Topgub There are protective factors in bed-sharing, safe bed-sharing practices are not a case of making it “less lethal". That demonstrates a bit of a lack of understanding of the data and how risk works. The bed sharing adult, as long as they are a breastfeeding mother - and there are lots of other caveats such as particular health considerations as well as the obvious no drink/no drugs - is a protective factor according to some studies. There was one study from memory I think actually from the late 90s which I found very interesting. It was a sleep study on breastfeeding, bed-sharing mothers which made some very interesting observations on the effects of the mother's positioning and breathing through the night and the way this effectively created a "bubble" of slightly elevated CO2 levels around the baby's face. There is a point at which high CO2 levels increase the risk of SIDS, but the bed-sharing environment and natural positioning of mother and infant allowed for optimum levels of CO2 to stimulate respiration in infants. Just one example of how the bed-sharing mother can be a protective factor.

It isn't as simple as bed-sharing = good/bad. There are extremely specific circumstances under which bed-sharing is indeed the safest way for an infant to sleep. That's not to say it's risk free - nothing is. Sleeping on a separate sleep surface carries risk also. And whilst in some circumstances - perhaps even most circumstances when considering all relevant factors - the risks of sleeping alone will be lesser, there are plenty of people bed sharing in circumstances where it isn't.

Agree with this

@Outlyingtrout

There are extremely specific circumstances under which bed-sharing is indeed the safest way for an infant to sleep.

This just isn't true.

However there's no point arguing. Bed sharers are loathe to admit the risk and will deny all the actual data.

Its like that meme about the mmr and autism

There's 99 articles proving it's not safe and 1 poorly researched article saying it is and thats the one they hold up in triumph.

The risk is very very small. The risk of SIDS is very small.

But pretending bedsharing is the safest way is just nonsense.

You mean the one endorsed by the Lullaby Trust? Or are they biased too?

'The Lullaby Trust has worked with Public Heath England, Unicef UK Baby Friendly and Basis on two publications to support families with safer sleep advice and advice on co-sleeping more safely. We have also collaborated on a guide for health professionals to have more open and productive discussions with families about safer sleep and co-sleeping. These can be downloaded below.
You might also be interested in reading the two Unicef Baby Friendly publications, which are both endorsed by The Lullaby Trust:
Unicef’s leaflet on Caring for Your Baby at Night
Unicef’s guide Co-sleeping and SIDS: A Guide for Health Professionals'

@FoxCorner @ohfook so those people who coslept with their babies who passed away because of it/SIDS were lacking that instinct?!

@Hugasauras

Yes, unfortunately they are now.

Since they caved.

They've gone down the we have to tell them how to do it 'safely' because they dont listen to the actual chance route.

Despite evidence (canadian research)showing that more permissive attitudes to bed sharing increases rather than reduces deaths.

The promotion of bf at all costs won out.

@FoxCorner

I had zero instinct that bedsharing would keep my baby alive. Quite the opposite infact

Nothing would have convinced me to put them in my bed.

@Outlyingtrout
'There are protective factors in bed-sharing, safe bed-sharing practices are not a case of making it “less lethal".'

Yes they are.

Protective factors add to the protection a baby has from SIDS. It doesn't mean doing them whilst cosleeping is the safest option.

@Topgub let's agree to disagree. I think it's quite clear to anyone with a working understanding of data and how to interpret it that you don't approach the subject with an open mind, have read limited amounts of research that seem to support one viewpoint, don't quite understand the concept of risk in a scientific sense and that there's certainly a level of emotional response that's evident from the way you are engaging with people here (the laughing emojis, the sort of "teaming up" with another PP to sneer at people, labelling other people's comments as "nonsense").

I hope that people coming across the thread will be prompted to spend time doing their own research and realise that it isn't as black and white as you believe it to be (no matter how assertive you are with your "Those are the facts" comments, whilst presenting no actual facts).