Ukrainian guest …I’m not feeling comfortable

[CookieDoughKid]

I’ve been hosting a Ukrainian mother and 15yo daughter since beginning of May. We get on ok although we live very different lives even before the war. She’s a SAhM and I’m a working mum full time. It’s been difficult for her to adjust because her husband used to do everything, such as banking, booking train tickets, appointments. It’s been a real learning curve having to stand on her own feet here. Fortunately she can speak some English so over time, I have been able to take a step back from supporting her on how to live in England. her dd will be taking GCSE exams next summer term.

My kids and her dd don’t like each other and don’t get on. The mother is a bit work shy in that she is very choosy about jobs being offered to her by the job agency. She does a week here or there. Nothing permanent or full time. She is not claiming UC after it was made apparent she would have to look for work or go back to work full time. Her husband is supporting her financially. I broached the subject of long term accommodation and the challenges of finding rent. I was surprised to learn they have 10000 USD saved, husband has a good job in software in Ukraine. They are prepared to rent but would rather not as they don’t want to ‘waste their money’. I know they’d rather go back home if the war was over.

I had pledged at the start to give them half of the £350 thank you money from Gov to be used as a deposit for their rent when they move on. That’s £150 a month I would give to them for the 12 months commitment. I keep £150. I know I don’t have to do it but I wanted them to feel like they have some longevity here without too much hardship. That was prior to me learning about their savings. With everything going on at home, me working full time, my two teens…I’m finding it all a bit much. The mother is lovely but so talkative and she’s always there. Sand my day is incredibly busy, I travel for work, I have my own children to look after.

what gripes me is that she also doesn’t pay a single thing or offer when I’ve said from the start she needs to sort it herself I’m talking about washing powder and sundries….she does pay her own food. I’m starting to resent the fact that she never offers to pay for dishwasher tablets, stationery paper, toilet roll, cling film, aluminium foil, washing powder, cleaning goods, kitchen napkins etc… It all adds up.

Come October, it will have been 6 months of me hosting. Would I be unreasonable to ask her to plan on moving out …I think I can tolerate them living with me to Jan 2023 (that would be 9 months in total) but she’s mentioned she wants to stay with me till next June so that her dd can sit her exams without interruption.

Should I ask for a household contribution? And what about the £150 a month I pledged? It’s not that I can’t afford it, I can but I feel I’m being taken for a ride.

she mentioned she wanted help in applying for UC housing benefit in the future which does not sit well with me knowing she is supported by her husband, has savings and is choosy with jobs?

fwiw, we both try very hard to get on. She’s helpful sith cleaning and so am I, and we have a good rhythm in sharing the kitchen etc. we don’t argue and we haven’t had any major spats.

it’s just that I am finding it hard to live with someone who is so different in outlook to me and living with us full stop. My dad was a refugee, he held down 3 jobs 7 days a week for a while and that work ethic is very strong in me (I don’t rely on my husband financially and never have but that’s my choice). I know if I was to live with someone not out of choice I would work really hard, and try to move out as soon as possible!

would like your perspective on this. I feel really guilty even thinking about asking her to move out but also, I feel they would have had 8 or 9 months free living so..isn’t that generous in itself?

What, for using some washing detergent and dishwasher tablets? The OP has said she doesn't need the money,in fact it was her choice to give back half the £350. Jesus wept,it's been 3 months without her husband,in a new country and she's hanging on on to her meagre savings as that's all she has and will need when/if she goes home.

So on this thread we've had a refugee woman (a specific real person assuming the thread is real) who's been forcibly separated from her husband and had to move thousands of miles away with her child called

A cunty fucker
A pisstaker
A greedy tight leech
A lazy bitch

Are mumsnet going to let this stand? I suppose it's informative anyway 😟

@BloodAndFire Agree there is no need for that attitude. Yes the refugee needs to work and stand on her own two feet but that language and sentiment is dreadful and not what the OP was saying at all

1. Being a refugee does not necessarily mean being financially poor.
2. Being a refugee means having lost your home and your life.
3. The second is much more disorienting and difficult than the first.
4. She does not know how long she will need to be in the UK and she longs to go home. If she doesn’t need to work financially, I think it’s fair enough for that not to be her priority.
5. It’s not unreasonable for her to have different expectations from her host. What needs to happen is an actual conversation covering things like contribution to household costs (washing powder etc), medium/long term goals re accommodation and finances.
6. Given that she has savings, OP, I think it’s fine to rethink your generous plan re helping her with a deposit. Instead, why not use that money for the things she isn’t currently contributing to?
7. Personally, I would be focussing my efforts on helping the children to get along.
8. And working on readjusting my own expectations about what help is most needed.

I have a lot of sympathy for your guests. The mother has been a SAHM for at least 15 years. She and her husband were happy with the status quo and there was no expectation that she would return to the workplace. This may be the norm in her social circle, just like it would have been the norm when I was growing up in Ireland in the '70s and '80s. My mother (and my friends' mothers) stayed at home to care for their children. Some returned to work full-time when their children were older, others took part-time jobs and some were happy to remain at home - pottering about the house and garden and maybe helping out with their grandchildren. The decision to go back to work was theirs - there was no expectation that they would do so.

Anyway, Russia invaded Ukraine and everything changed and your guests had to leave their country and seek refuge in a foreign country. The mother and daughter moved in with a host family. The mother is missing her husband and her home, along with her friends and neighbours and everything that's familiar. She doesn't know what the future holds for her country or her family and whether her stay in the UK will be long-term or short-term. She's trying to adjust to a country where everything is different and where she doesn't speak the language fluently. Her host is putting pressure on her to find a job. Her child doesn't get on with the kids in the host family and may be experiencing difficulties adjusting to a new country/house/school/language. The mother and child may be traumatised from witnessing scenes of fighting/bombing/war atrocities - I don't know if this is the case.

That said, I have sympathy for your situation too. It must be incredibly difficult hosting what are, essentially, strangers in your home. We see a lot of posts on MN at Christmas about the difficulties and strains of hosting one's own family members for just a few days (or staying with family for that length of time). You've been hosting complete strangers for three months. To make matters worse, your kids don't get along.

YWNBU to ask your guests to move out but maybe give them three months' notice. And offer to help the mother to negotiate with whatever authorities she needs to engage with. Since you offered to pay her £150 a month, I would honour that agreement until she moves out, assuming you can afford to do so.

This.
I don't think she will be able to claim much UC if she has that much in savings and has extra money from her husband, it is a difficult situation but I think untenable for OP

I think you are missing the point of the thread though. The Op doesn't have to have someone staying in her home a minute longer than she wants to. It's that simple.

The issue here is there isn't a debate on how you facilitate independence or what you might do as a host which might be counter productive and encourage dependence.

And actually we should be having that conversation and we should be talking about what we do in practical terms for hosts at breaking point and how do you handle refugees who are starting to take the piss.

This isnt national front stuff.

This is being honest about a situation and problems now beginning to arise with the scheme. It's a discussion about the flaws, oversights and yes exploitation of the scheme. Which should be done to address those problems, learn from them and maybe improve the situation.

I am telling you that there are hosts who feel emotionally held hostage. Yes they may have been naive in doing a good thing, but they still did a good thing with honourable intentions. That doesn't get undone because it goes tits up.

There will be hosts reading this, needing to know this and know that actually there are limits to what they can do, and to know to recognise this. Rather than letting things fester.

The whole suck it up thing, is not necessarily possible. There are consequences and there are a lot of vulnerable people concerned here. They aren't all necessarily refugees. Many families are hosting. Many families haven't got their hosting money: UC credit doesn't come through for 6 weeks on average and in my area its taking 9 weeks for some to be signed off to get their hosting money. People hosting on the family scheme dont get £350. So imagine what thats doing for pressures within a household...

Honestly its a very complex situation. Every hosting situation is different.

Some will be a dream. Some will be a nightmare and yes there will be those taking advantage...

@Shgytfgtf111 are you hosting a ukrainian ?

Yes, your post is excellent and makes many good points.
The abusive language directed towards the refugee mirrors that in the gutter tabloid press. It won't be long before the same newspapers who vilify black and brown refugees get fed up with Ukrainian refugees even though they are white and European and 'like us.' I guess this will happen as the cost of living crisis gets even worse...

How has our government "passed the buck"?

Knowing damn well that there isn't enough housing stock and encouraging people to open up their homes rather than them having to sort the problem that's how!!

This thread is exposing shameful attitudes to human beings in dire straights

Not relevant.
I haven't been raped but I can sympathise with those who have.
I haven't had cancer but I can have an opinion on how the NHS is funded.
I'm not black but I still know racism is wrong.
Just because someone isn't hosting a Ukrainian family doesn't mean they can't pass comment/share an opinion/give advice to someone who is.
Outside advice is often good- and as others have mentioned, this is a chat forum....

Is it possible that your guests were told that the costs to you of their stay would be entirely covered by the government payment? This may be just a misunderstanding.
Have you sat down and discussed your concerns with her?

Your expectations are way off OP, to the extent that I'm wondering if this is even real. Why were you expecting this woman to be like you? Why are you annoyed to find out she isn’t poor? Their savings aren't enough to rebuild their lives. They did not come here for economic reasons. Their world has been torn apart. Are your DC taking into consideration the emotional turmoil her DD must be experiencing, whilst being expected to slot into another life and take exams? Also, if you say you can afford to offer £150 a month, why are you quibbling over tin foil etc? You have tried to do a wonderful thing OP, but it's clearly not for you and your DC. You won't be the only ones, but at least you tried.

How quickly people turn when a few months in it’s actually hard.

She doesn’t have millions in the bank as sme are suggesting and faces going home to a decimated country with I assume, no benefits system.

If dishwasher tablets, tin foil are the straw that broke the camels back as well as you judging her then please just ask her to leave.

If you expected her to take regular work like cleaning you should have made it clear at the beginning.

@RedToothBrush absolutely spot on

Very few if any posts on here have suggested that @CookieDoughKid should have this woman and her child stay in her home until June. It’s entirely correct that this should be a consensual arrangement. If OP is no longer comfortable, it’s a shame and difficult to all involved and there’s probably some duty of care there given she may have inadvertently deprived the refugee of a more secure and suitable placement by stepping up, but ultimately she has been generous enough and needs to do what’s best for her and her family.

Some of the language on this thread is appalling and @BloodAndFire is right to call it out, no reason to think they are missing the point of the thread. Not wanting someone in your home any longer doesn’t require anyone to be demonised, including a refugee woman who may be reasonably confused about what sort of hospitality is actually on offer here.

I wondered how long it would be before the racist card showed up

YABU the government said it would be a MINIMUM of 6 months - you can’t get to the 6 month mark and be annoyed they’re still there.

The £350 is to pay for their stay - so extra water, electricity, food, washing powder etc - again the government made this perfectly clear.
It’s ridiculous that you are giving her half but moaning she’s not contributing - she shouldn’t be contributing as that’s what the moneys for but you chose to give it away.

You took on a massive responsibility which people were warned not to take on lightly and unfortunately you have to pay the consequences for it.

If you’re struggling financially then you’re going to have to speak to her about using the money the government gives you to go towards food and bills etc.

We're in a very similar situation - have been hosting a mum and 14yo daughter. They went back to Poland last week for an unspecified period of time and were hoping they don't come back. We haven't heard from them since they left. Before they left we had a very clear conversation with them that we were only prepared to host then for 6 months and that they would have to move out in November and that would involve getting a job. It's a really challenging and complex situation and too much to summarise in a post, but generally we've found them quite rude, entitled and wanting to take advantage of everything they can whilst giving nothing back. I think we've just been unlucky with our guests as have met lots of other Ukrainians who are very different. Feel free to DM me if it would help to talk to someone who understands the challenges of hosting!

And does she really have to work if she can afford not to?

So the OP is expected to supplement her so she doesn't have to work ?! She can't afford not to work clearly.

Lots have been told they will get completely free bed and board.

It is one of the myths being circulated in Ukrainian circles unfortunately.

Ive had several hosts (and guests) talk about this to me and how its causing problems.

In her mind the money the government is giving you pays for her “keep”, yes it adds up but it is clear that it’s time for her to move on, so go to which ever agency is involved and say she can’t stay any longer, an alternative will be found. Now the Ukraine situation is stabilizing it may well be that she decides to go back but of course that depends where in that country her husband is.

This is why the government never should have offered the hosts money as people saw pound signs and took on the responsibility without thinking about it properly.

Now the hero complex is wearing off and they’re realising that money isn’t free money and actually needs to be spent - we’re going to see a lot more hosts wanting the refugees gone.