Ukrainian guest …I’m not feeling comfortable

[CookieDoughKid]

I’ve been hosting a Ukrainian mother and 15yo daughter since beginning of May. We get on ok although we live very different lives even before the war. She’s a SAhM and I’m a working mum full time. It’s been difficult for her to adjust because her husband used to do everything, such as banking, booking train tickets, appointments. It’s been a real learning curve having to stand on her own feet here. Fortunately she can speak some English so over time, I have been able to take a step back from supporting her on how to live in England. her dd will be taking GCSE exams next summer term.

My kids and her dd don’t like each other and don’t get on. The mother is a bit work shy in that she is very choosy about jobs being offered to her by the job agency. She does a week here or there. Nothing permanent or full time. She is not claiming UC after it was made apparent she would have to look for work or go back to work full time. Her husband is supporting her financially. I broached the subject of long term accommodation and the challenges of finding rent. I was surprised to learn they have 10000 USD saved, husband has a good job in software in Ukraine. They are prepared to rent but would rather not as they don’t want to ‘waste their money’. I know they’d rather go back home if the war was over.

I had pledged at the start to give them half of the £350 thank you money from Gov to be used as a deposit for their rent when they move on. That’s £150 a month I would give to them for the 12 months commitment. I keep £150. I know I don’t have to do it but I wanted them to feel like they have some longevity here without too much hardship. That was prior to me learning about their savings. With everything going on at home, me working full time, my two teens…I’m finding it all a bit much. The mother is lovely but so talkative and she’s always there. Sand my day is incredibly busy, I travel for work, I have my own children to look after.

what gripes me is that she also doesn’t pay a single thing or offer when I’ve said from the start she needs to sort it herself I’m talking about washing powder and sundries….she does pay her own food. I’m starting to resent the fact that she never offers to pay for dishwasher tablets, stationery paper, toilet roll, cling film, aluminium foil, washing powder, cleaning goods, kitchen napkins etc… It all adds up.

Come October, it will have been 6 months of me hosting. Would I be unreasonable to ask her to plan on moving out …I think I can tolerate them living with me to Jan 2023 (that would be 9 months in total) but she’s mentioned she wants to stay with me till next June so that her dd can sit her exams without interruption.

Should I ask for a household contribution? And what about the £150 a month I pledged? It’s not that I can’t afford it, I can but I feel I’m being taken for a ride.

she mentioned she wanted help in applying for UC housing benefit in the future which does not sit well with me knowing she is supported by her husband, has savings and is choosy with jobs?

fwiw, we both try very hard to get on. She’s helpful sith cleaning and so am I, and we have a good rhythm in sharing the kitchen etc. we don’t argue and we haven’t had any major spats.

it’s just that I am finding it hard to live with someone who is so different in outlook to me and living with us full stop. My dad was a refugee, he held down 3 jobs 7 days a week for a while and that work ethic is very strong in me (I don’t rely on my husband financially and never have but that’s my choice). I know if I was to live with someone not out of choice I would work really hard, and try to move out as soon as possible!

would like your perspective on this. I feel really guilty even thinking about asking her to move out but also, I feel they would have had 8 or 9 months free living so..isn’t that generous in itself?

Agreed, it definitely did.

Excellent post, RedToothBrush, and picking up on "The £350 really doesn't cover much at all" I'd point out it'll cover even less when the winter fuel bills hit - especially if hosts have several people staying in their home most of the day

You're also spot on about the emotional manipulation, which ppredictably we're seeing on here already. Shame that those using it have so little to offer around actual practicalities, but then IMO that was the fundamental problem with the whole scheme in the first place

Nobody disputes that "something had to be done", but doing it without anything much in place beyond a few phrases about "being kind" seems to me a recipe for chaos

The OP doesn’t need to reframe anything.
She’s not happy, her kids aren’t happy, her own family has to come first surely.

The Op has no responsibility to her long term, that’s not the point of this scheme.

If she doesn’t want them there then the last and her child need to move on ASAP. Best for all concerned.

As others have said, and not having read the whole thread, the guest may not have access to the money, or it may not be in her name etc etc.

Im sorry.

Should I rephrase it as knowing that it is being circulated on some Ukrainian forums. There is masses of misinformation out there and a surprising amount about how to game the system here which is utterly depressing.

The fact the reality is completely different is another matter. The law has been changed to stop it. But this is very much what some believe. And they have to be corrected and set straight.

The trouble is you have hosts caught in the midst of this.

In terms of the attempted victim reframing... It doesn't reflect reality. She can behave like that, but it doesn't improve her situation. It only makes it more precarious and difficult if she decides to take that attitude.

Sure the mum has only that money as her security. The way you make yourself more secure is by taking responsibility, getting a job and taking control of the situation. You don't get security by hoarding your money and building up resentment with the person generously putting you up by not pulling your own weight. Hosts who find themselves in a situation where they feel taken advantage of, are more likely to want to end it rather than extend it.

Money 'invested' in paying their own way is actually probably money well spent on security...

Cunty fuckers exist everywhere. This is a life lesson well learned. Thinking they don't is naive. Cunty fuckery is a human trait existant within all societies...

I don't think she's taking the piss. She wasn't working before, so having to go and live on a country where she doesn't speak the language particularly well and work are going to be a massive thing. I've done it out of choice, because I wanted to and it's not easy. I would hate to have to do it out because I had to. And does she really have to work if she can afford not to?

You're being given money to cover expenses such as washing powder, so I think it's completely unreasonable for you to tell her you'll give her some of that money and then expect her to offer it back. Just keep all of the money and let her use the cleaning products you'd buy anyway.

Tell her she needs to get settled in her own place in three months time. Help her find somewhere close enough to her daughters school. If she then needs to work she will, and it won't be your problem.

It is also the follow up to a rather shocking racist rant, by someone who is claiming to be an 'expert' on helping refugees, who is telling refugees what they should be doing and thinking in order to be acceptable, who is complaining about refugees er, 'breeding dependence', and OF COURSE is wittering on about refugees having 4 x 4s and DC at boarding schools, and lots of other National Front rhetoric.

Just summarising, because I expect @RedToothBrush post to get deleted.

@BloodAndFire Yes, because I read her post in its entirety, and agreed with it. Do you honestly think every refugee hosted here is genuinely a good person? Some will be. Possibly many. But just like people everywhere, some will be not so nice, some will be selfish, some will be narcissists, some will even be sociopaths. There are inevitably going to be people who take advantage of other people's kindness and good nature. Maybe calling them 'cunty fucks' is a bit strong, but the principle still stands.

Cunty fuckers exist everywhere.

Yes, they certainly do.

It doesn't actually matter. If you are married and being financially supported its relevant to your application.

Just tell her you can't afford it any more sorry and give her a month's notice

Other European countries have set up schemes where Ukrainian refugees who have arrived with Ukrainian currency are able to exchange this for Euros at pre war rates. It's a shame the UK hasn't set up a similar scheme.
www.bundesbank.de/en/tasks/topics/launch-of-exchange-scheme-hryvnia-banknotes-can-be-exchanged-into-euro-from-24-may-2022-891012

I think there's a big difference between believing that "not every single refugee is a good person" and actively applauding calling a woman who's fled her country and been separated from her husband a "cunty fucker" and a "pisstaker".

I would retract the offer of £150, saying that you are not in a position to split the thank you money given the rise in cost of living, gas etc. Also , make clear the welcome money is intended for the host family , not the refugee. The refugee needs to apply for UC or find work.

I would give her notice and also help her apply for UC. As part of helping her apply for UC get all the statements of her savings etc and forward them to dwp. Let the dwp decide if she's entitled to UC or not, probably won't be , but refugee UC applicants may have different criteria who knows!

😄

Why? Why should it get deleted? What has she said that is so bad.

She has said some people are cunty duckers!

That’s true in all walks of life!

Another one has said refugees are inherently selfish too - that they have to be to survive.

Should that also get deleted - it was far more targeted at refugees than the post to which you have taken such offence was.

If she's going to get half the £350 pm, then it's only fair that she also pays extra towards the perishable household stuff, so you will have to ask her, especially if she does have a steady income stream.

It sounds like you're a little resentful about the fact that she's richer than you (which I can understand a bit), as this kind of limits the vision of impoverished mum and her orphan child wondrous at your benevolence and expansive western lifestyle, when it turns out she's a real person after all, with her own mod cons.

You'll just have to suck it up and let them stay, I think. At the end of the day, you have helped to save two lives and it is a really wonderful thing you are doing for them. If you kicked them out, all the good deed will be undone.

@RedToothBrush I actually agree that this woman would benefit from finding work - obviously it would be good for her both financially and in terms of her english etc. But what I dislike on this thread is the judgment and inability to understand why someone who has only been here 2 months might make certain decisions.

And people saying oh kick her out, grabby cunt etc - helpful? Compassionate? no.

I am seeing hosts at emotional breaking point with the stress of it.

The media framing the 'bad host' as not doing enough is awful.

There is huge social pressure on hosts, to keep on giving and giving at their own expense regardless of anything the guests are doing.

Its just not fair. There isn't any balance.

There isn't any outlining of guest responsibility.

Its important we do, especially coming up to the 6 month mark.

There isn't any planning going on for it. Many hosts are going to be in a position they don't want to be. Councils are actively planning to put pressure on hosts to extend past 6 months.

Thats fine where its working. But some will be just hanging in there. And others will be pressure cookers ready to blow.

Its a total mess.

And yes, it is relevant to say that guests should be doing x, y and z at certain points and there should be a consistency in what hosts provide / dont provide to manage expectations better.

The whole scheme whilst honourable is deeply flawed. When it works, its great.

When its not, there is no existant support and guidance for all parties.

I completely agree with this.

Something else that was just pointed out to me today; I grew up in a house where we often had overseas students staying. Occasional refugees and always someone just arriving or just leaving.

I'm convinced it's one of the reasons I do all my charity at and length. As a child, I found having strangers in the house, usually with no previous experience of the UK, or a country like it, bloody difficult. My entire childhood was centred on helping other people less fortunate.

I've no idea why it made me feel so lost and uncomfortable, I definitely recognised they were in difficult situations, they were always lovely to me, and I got so much from it.

But at a gut level, it made me anxious and miserable. And as if I was pretty invisible.

Not all refugees, and not all children, but I do understand that there are consequences.

Btw, I think being a sahm is absolutely relevant when you're suddenly in a place where you are the only potential bread winner. It may appear that she is being a cf, when actually she can't get her head around the whole concept of work, and being solely responsible for her daughter.

I'm getting sore, sitting on the fence here, but what I do know?!

The Op has no responsibility to her long term, that’s not the point of this scheme

Maybe not, but as some of us foresaw that's exactly what it's turning into, because proper provision was never in place or likely to be

For example, allocating a social worker to each refugee would have been a fine idea, but just what chance was there of that when caseloads were impossible already? And what "alternative housing" was ever going to be realistic when lists in suitable areas were bursting even before they arrived?

To forestall the usual question I'm already doing a lot for local refugees, but actually housing them is something I'd never have done - and for precisely this reason

Bloody hell, get her gone! Totally abusing your kind nature and hospitality! But honestly, I can't understand why you'd do this with your own children in the house anyway, it can't be easy for them. They have the ability and means to pay rent, therfore they should rent somewhere and she will have to get a jib, there's plenty she could do

Suck it up?

Undoing good deeds?

See what I mean about the narrative of the evil mean host.

It doesn't help.

Hosts are human too and have limits. Hosts ARE being taken advantage of in certain circumstances.

To deny this, is actually wilfully blind.

We need to be having honest conversations about this : for well-being of both hosts and guests.

A 'sucking up' situation rather than encouraging hosts to be able to admit they are struggling or there is an active problem / building resentful situation is MORE likely to result in pressure cooker explosive breakdowns in hosting arrangements. This is harder for councils to deal with and harder for both hosts and guests.

No one should be sucking up anything. Its a sign the arrangement isn't tenable beyond six months.

Honouable intentions do not necessarily reflect the reality of a situation.

Hosts have sponsored someone to leave a war zone. Asking them to then move on or pay their own way is not 'undoing a good deed'.

I mean fuck me, lots of people wouldn't even entertain the idea of doing that much or hosting for 3 months...

@CookieDoughKid
You've been a very naive by judging people (her) by your own standards.

So you're out working all day and they're using your electricity, eating your food and hot water etc., and racking up your bills and you've given her £150.00 on top of it.

I would get rid of the lazy tight leech.