Ukrainian guest …I’m not feeling comfortable

[CookieDoughKid]

I’ve been hosting a Ukrainian mother and 15yo daughter since beginning of May. We get on ok although we live very different lives even before the war. She’s a SAhM and I’m a working mum full time. It’s been difficult for her to adjust because her husband used to do everything, such as banking, booking train tickets, appointments. It’s been a real learning curve having to stand on her own feet here. Fortunately she can speak some English so over time, I have been able to take a step back from supporting her on how to live in England. her dd will be taking GCSE exams next summer term.

My kids and her dd don’t like each other and don’t get on. The mother is a bit work shy in that she is very choosy about jobs being offered to her by the job agency. She does a week here or there. Nothing permanent or full time. She is not claiming UC after it was made apparent she would have to look for work or go back to work full time. Her husband is supporting her financially. I broached the subject of long term accommodation and the challenges of finding rent. I was surprised to learn they have 10000 USD saved, husband has a good job in software in Ukraine. They are prepared to rent but would rather not as they don’t want to ‘waste their money’. I know they’d rather go back home if the war was over.

I had pledged at the start to give them half of the £350 thank you money from Gov to be used as a deposit for their rent when they move on. That’s £150 a month I would give to them for the 12 months commitment. I keep £150. I know I don’t have to do it but I wanted them to feel like they have some longevity here without too much hardship. That was prior to me learning about their savings. With everything going on at home, me working full time, my two teens…I’m finding it all a bit much. The mother is lovely but so talkative and she’s always there. Sand my day is incredibly busy, I travel for work, I have my own children to look after.

what gripes me is that she also doesn’t pay a single thing or offer when I’ve said from the start she needs to sort it herself I’m talking about washing powder and sundries….she does pay her own food. I’m starting to resent the fact that she never offers to pay for dishwasher tablets, stationery paper, toilet roll, cling film, aluminium foil, washing powder, cleaning goods, kitchen napkins etc… It all adds up.

Come October, it will have been 6 months of me hosting. Would I be unreasonable to ask her to plan on moving out …I think I can tolerate them living with me to Jan 2023 (that would be 9 months in total) but she’s mentioned she wants to stay with me till next June so that her dd can sit her exams without interruption.

Should I ask for a household contribution? And what about the £150 a month I pledged? It’s not that I can’t afford it, I can but I feel I’m being taken for a ride.

she mentioned she wanted help in applying for UC housing benefit in the future which does not sit well with me knowing she is supported by her husband, has savings and is choosy with jobs?

fwiw, we both try very hard to get on. She’s helpful sith cleaning and so am I, and we have a good rhythm in sharing the kitchen etc. we don’t argue and we haven’t had any major spats.

it’s just that I am finding it hard to live with someone who is so different in outlook to me and living with us full stop. My dad was a refugee, he held down 3 jobs 7 days a week for a while and that work ethic is very strong in me (I don’t rely on my husband financially and never have but that’s my choice). I know if I was to live with someone not out of choice I would work really hard, and try to move out as soon as possible!

would like your perspective on this. I feel really guilty even thinking about asking her to move out but also, I feel they would have had 8 or 9 months free living so..isn’t that generous in itself?

It typically shows up right after the racist comments show up, doesn’t it?

Much of the information in this post is wrong. You commit to a minimum of 6 months when hosting, there is no expectation to continue beyond this - although you can receive the thank you payments for up to 12 months. Our council is already starting meetings with hosts and guests to see what the intentions are beyond 6 months. And the payments are just that - thank you payments. They are not to cover the costs of hosting, as hosts we can still ask for contributions to bills and food (although most hosts are using the thank you payments for this purpose).

@Circleofshells of which I haven't seen yet on this thread

OP, I do feel for you as I know I’d not cope with hosting refugees.

Her daughter must need lots of support and I can see why she’d want to be around for her, not working through school holidays etc. And she must also be massively struggling. Such an alien culture, language, worried about husband, friends, family, her home gone, her home town gone, etc. She probably doesn’t really understand the social norms in the UK, treading on eggshells at home.

Unless someone tells her how UC works, what happens if you claim fraudulently, and that she needs £xyz a month just for rent from October then she’s not understanding the situation she’s in. Does she have access to Ukrainian support groups?

But it is not down to op to manage the lifestyle choices of her guests. She provides safe accommodation and basics. Is it that easy to access funds from Ukraine at the moment? If her guest has not worked in Ukraine it is a huge mindshift for her to do so in UK with all the associated bureaucracy(cv, NI, tax, up skilling) let alone rent independently. Do ops teens have pt jobs, if not why should her teen guest. There should be advice and counselling available to support her towards moving on but op may need to nudge her to engage.

They aren't just refugees, they are housemates too. Perhaps this has nothing to do with their status and everything to do with them letting others pick up the bill in a shared house.

If I posted that a housemate, who had plenty of savings, never paid for loo roll, washing up liquid etc., MN would tell me she's a CF.

No mate, as I pointed out earlier it's for better people than me.

“Life style choices”
Hahahahahah
You think she’s choosing to be here? You think she’s enjoying being here?

I have never suffered with my mental health but if I was faced with the Ukrainian lady’s situation, I could well imagine that I might have extreme anxiety and depression. Add that to a language barrier and I might not feel fit to work either!

I have, perhaps we just have different thresholds for what we would consider racist? Comparison of a person to a parasitic insect in the context of their membership of a specific and vulnerable ethnic minority for example, I would consider this racist.

I think you need to give her a deadline. She needs a job and somewhere to live. You can't carry on like this. It's not fair on any of you. I have a friend who has just asked her guests to leave and found them a flat and paid the rent for a few months. It became untenable and they were not respectful of her home or her life. It's so difficult. These poor people have had their lives turned upside down through no fault of their own. However, it's a massive culture clash and wildly different lifestyles. You've done a wonderful thing but now it's time for them to stand on their own two feet.

I think use the six month marker to change the financial arranagement, set out your boundaries and give her a date when she'll need to have moved out & made herself independent.

I think the disgusting language, the hatred and the vitriol may be xenophobia rather than racism, but that's splitting hairs.

In any case, it is far, far beyond an acceptable or appropriate way to speak about someone in this situation.

I'm Jewish, my family came here as refugees from pogroms in the early 20th c and were also subjected to the same kind of dehumanising language, vilification and just pure hate.

It mainly sounds like you are disappointed that their story is not as tragic as you would have liked. Can you imagine having to pack up your life and stay with strangers in a country you don’t know because your own country is at war. And you think she shouldn’t have savings or a husband that works. If that is all I had in the world I would not want to waste it either but you want to take it off her to cover your washing powder costs!

You are not suited to hosting, seems to me like you went into it for the wrong reasons and yes, kinder all round, including to your own children, to bring this to an end.

I suppose staying in bed til 4pm, then be noisy into the night past 10 when there are young kids in the house, giving food 20mins before a house meal you know about, using household stuff told explicitly not to, being deliberately malicious to hosts is just acceptable behaviour and isnt happening. Hosts are in tears just making this up?

There are some dreadful hosts. There are also some dreadful guests.

Some people were never going to make it work. This doesn't mean they didn't take it seriously. Or fail to consider cultural issues, trauma or just practical financial stuff. Some did it anyway, figuring it was better to take the gamble and get people out as a priority. And hope they got lucky with a good match. Im pretty sure there are relationships that have broken down, not because of what the host was doing or their lack of consideration.

Ultimately guests have to want to be here and to make it work. That includes any kids they bring with. And ultimately hosts have to be able to put their own families first, if they find themselves in a difficult position.

As I say, the sucking up scenario is actually the one you want to avoid as thats the dangerous / damaging one.

We need to be honest, and actually I do think the deliberate attempts to suppress this is only adding to frustration and where emotions are running high. Telling people they dont deserve help and they should just suck up unacceptable behaviour because 'well you should have known better and considered what you are doing and if you dont stick with it indefinitely you are now a bad person' is every bit as bad. The emotional blackmail is utterly appalling.

There was a bbc article last week which was dire. Had a massive go at the host... Yet the guests even admitted they were doing things like changing his wifi passwords!!! Now should we be excusing this as an expression of being traumatised?

Really?

The ins and outs of each situation on a day to day basis are very different. Some is excusable. Others not so much. And often hosts are being understanding and accommodating and its an accumulation of little things that take advantage wuth an overall attitude that sets it off. The trigger to a big argument might be not putting the bins out, but the wider picture is actually not making any move forward, expecting a host to sort out paperwork and then keeping going 'oh well its easy for you, can you just do this'. All the xan you just do this without giving anything back in terms of showing willingness add up...

I know of one lovely family who are hosting a nightmare Ukrainian mother and her kids.

I can’t go in to detail as it would be outing but some of the behaviour is shocking, also lies involved to the council, wanted to leave Ukraine so much that she would return there for a holiday, leaving her kids here! Drink involved, screaming etc Feel so sorry for her dc!

To balance this out, the host family have a neighbour hosting a lovely Ukrainian family.

💐I think Jewish people must be able to understand how dangerous this language is on a level that few others can access.

I think you’ve done a great job taking them in but I would give her early Oct as a moving out date - that’s 10 weeks to find somewhere.

Quietly forget about giving her any of the money, as she doesn’t need it. If she asks about it, just explain that the costs of having them are obviously quite considerable and as she has savings she isn’t in need of more.

Now she has found her feet in England it will be far better for her to get her own place. And her daughter will be happier too. If you don’t want to get involved with the UC application don’t - point her to CAB.

Let everyone know the plan on Monday.

No of course she has not chosen to be here! She apparently could work but chooses not to - that may be due to mh and trauma, that she believes she has no relevant skills, wants to be available to support her dd, is reluctant to commit to a life here, but this is unclear. It however should not fall on op to direct her, it sounds she has enough going on. 6 months seems a natural watershed, and allows her time to get the minimum length lease while dd is still at school,

In your position I would ask her to make her own arrangements from the 1st of October or the 6 month mark. It’s not very far away. Make do until then and remind your children how wonderful they have been tolerating the difficulties.

You can help find a new place for her, start viewing next month near the school. Help her find a job she likes if she wants one. Support them to leave.

I'm not reading all of that. You're justifying the use of the most appalling, insulting, vitriolic, dehumanising language against a refugee woman and her child.

There is no justification for it and I'm not interested in reading anything more from someone who refers to people in that way.

Thank you xx

I would also stop giving her half of your money, i would be open and say the cost of living has increased so much you need the extra money to cover the basics. Then you won’t feel quite as resentful. Point her in the direction of the voluntary service to support her so she isn’t off loading on you. I feel so sorry her life has been blown up like this by Putin. It must be horrendous for her and her dd.

Im equal ops. I quite happily call all cunty fuckers, a cunty fucker. There are cunty fuckers in all situations. Being able to call a cunty fucker a cunty fucker on the basis of their behaviour not their religious, socio-economic or race should be possible.

The idea that i called Ukrainians more generally all cunty fuckers is very different. There are some who are really nice and having wonderful relationships.

I think this is somewhat more galling for those who haven't been so lucky with the lottery of who they get.

I don't see how you can justify someone fraudulently claiming uc when they are over the limit for savings on the basis that people need it for their security. The same is true for anyone in any situation. It would be true for any British woman leaving an abusive relationship. It sucks but there is a certain amount of logic. Otherwise the system ceases to be solvent in terms of tax in benefits out.

Perhaps walk a mile in someone else's shoes huh?

Quite.