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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Ukrainian guest …I’m not feeling comfortable

542 replies

CookieDoughKid · 30/07/2022 00:47

I’ve been hosting a Ukrainian mother and 15yo daughter since beginning of May. We get on ok although we live very different lives even before the war. She’s a SAhM and I’m a working mum full time. It’s been difficult for her to adjust because her husband used to do everything, such as banking, booking train tickets, appointments. It’s been a real learning curve having to stand on her own feet here. Fortunately she can speak some English so over time, I have been able to take a step back from supporting her on how to live in England. her dd will be taking GCSE exams next summer term.

My kids and her dd don’t like each other and don’t get on. The mother is a bit work shy in that she is very choosy about jobs being offered to her by the job agency. She does a week here or there. Nothing permanent or full time. She is not claiming UC after it was made apparent she would have to look for work or go back to work full time. Her husband is supporting her financially. I broached the subject of long term accommodation and the challenges of finding rent. I was surprised to learn they have 10000 USD saved, husband has a good job in software in Ukraine. They are prepared to rent but would rather not as they don’t want to ‘waste their money’. I know they’d rather go back home if the war was over.

I had pledged at the start to give them half of the £350 thank you money from Gov to be used as a deposit for their rent when they move on. That’s £150 a month I would give to them for the 12 months commitment. I keep £150. I know I don’t have to do it but I wanted them to feel like they have some longevity here without too much hardship. That was prior to me learning about their savings. With everything going on at home, me working full time, my two teens…I’m finding it all a bit much. The mother is lovely but so talkative and she’s always there. Sand my day is incredibly busy, I travel for work, I have my own children to look after.

what gripes me is that she also doesn’t pay a single thing or offer when I’ve said from the start she needs to sort it herself I’m talking about washing powder and sundries….she does pay her own food. I’m starting to resent the fact that she never offers to pay for dishwasher tablets, stationery paper, toilet roll, cling film, aluminium foil, washing powder, cleaning goods, kitchen napkins etc… It all adds up.

Come October, it will have been 6 months of me hosting. Would I be unreasonable to ask her to plan on moving out …I think I can tolerate them living with me to Jan 2023 (that would be 9 months in total) but she’s mentioned she wants to stay with me till next June so that her dd can sit her exams without interruption.

Should I ask for a household contribution? And what about the £150 a month I pledged? It’s not that I can’t afford it, I can but I feel I’m being taken for a ride.

she mentioned she wanted help in applying for UC housing benefit in the future which does not sit well with me knowing she is supported by her husband, has savings and is choosy with jobs?

fwiw, we both try very hard to get on. She’s helpful sith cleaning and so am I, and we have a good rhythm in sharing the kitchen etc. we don’t argue and we haven’t had any major spats.

it’s just that I am finding it hard to live with someone who is so different in outlook to me and living with us full stop. My dad was a refugee, he held down 3 jobs 7 days a week for a while and that work ethic is very strong in me (I don’t rely on my husband financially and never have but that’s my choice). I know if I was to live with someone not out of choice I would work really hard, and try to move out as soon as possible!

would like your perspective on this. I feel really guilty even thinking about asking her to move out but also, I feel they would have had 8 or 9 months free living so..isn’t that generous in itself?

OP posts:
MarvelMrs · 30/07/2022 09:28

The other thing re. savings is that we all don’t want to spend hard earned savings on rent or car repairs or bills from redundancy, etc. but things happen in life and we have to use our savings. You have helped her for months but then it is time to use the savings unfortunately. It happens to us all.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 30/07/2022 09:31

How has our government "passed the buck"?

As said, by dangling the "six months" and an awful lot of feelgood rhetoric, in the full knowledge that no future provision was in place or likely to be ... in other words wanting to appear to be "doing something", in the hope that they could enjoy the headlines while leaving others to shoulder the actual work

goldfinchonthelawn · 30/07/2022 09:36

CookieDoughKid · 30/07/2022 00:55

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy You’re absolutely right. I guess it’s not too late to change the maths as I haven’t handed her any money yet.

I think you need to retract that offer by being honest and say: I'm glad to learn you have financial security and don't need the hardship money I put aside for you, as your family is not in financial hardship. I will need that money to cover the expenses of hosting you: food, utilities etc are rising costs all the time in UK. I think we need to look at you moving out and renting or finding a job and contributing fairly to the costs.

Quincythequince · 30/07/2022 09:38

Honeysuckle9 · 30/07/2022 09:28

@Quincythequince It’s great that you are doing this, these services are incredible important:

Buts it’s not the same as sharing your home with a stranger

I agree!
I never actually said it was and completely understand that.

FWIW on the four children living here isn’t mine, and is here due to difficult circumstances. Not a refugee it’s true, but not family.

And regardless, people are allowed opinions on a chat forum. That’s why it’s here. Other people telling to MTOB because they’re not hosting a refugee is silly as most posters won’t be hosting a refugee.

Also think the person who mentioned virtue signalling needs to look up what that actually is, don’t think they fully understand the meaning of it, but are using it as some kind of an insult.

Haffiana · 30/07/2022 09:40

BongoJim · 30/07/2022 09:16

It will however effect how much you are entitled to. Over £16,000 and you're not entitled to anything.

This particular refugee has only £8,000 in savings however.

Januarytoes · 30/07/2022 09:40

It's been 3 months: May, June and July.

If you ask for volunteer help from the community someone will come and help her apply for UC. You work full time OP and there is a pool of volunteer help out there in the community, waiting to be asked.
I think - help her apply for UC, explain that you are needing the grant for their food and sundries, as the govt intended, and the government funding for her is UC.

It's a remarkable thing that her 15yo can take GCSEs next summer - she won't have covered the GCSE syllabus (2 years) - is her English fab? That is very resilient. I say this as when I returned to UK after living in my husband's country until my DC was 15, the UK school put them back a year so that the syllabus would be covered.
You might want to talk to the school about that as the mum might not have understood.

PutinSmellsPassItOn · 30/07/2022 09:41

Tbh £10000 is hardly mega money. I dont blame her for not wanting to touch that considering her situation.
I do think applying for UC could benefit her tho, she'd get support via a work coach at least.

PhilInt · 30/07/2022 09:44

I think I'd probably try to frame the moving out in terms of not disrupting her child's education, that way she won't see it as an attack. Say unfortunately you can't commit to host until next June and as it's important her daughter experiences as least disruption as possible with her education you suggest she finds somewhere before the new term starts. Keep your word on sharing the money. Remind her she has £900 from that as a deposit.

RedToothBrush · 30/07/2022 09:46

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Phobiaphobic · 30/07/2022 09:47

MbatataOwl · 30/07/2022 00:58

Are you letting her take the piss out of you because war?

Yes, she is. And I suspect a lot of others are too. Just because someone is a refugee, it doesn't guarantee they'll be a fabulous human being. Gratitude only goes so far.

RedToothBrush · 30/07/2022 09:48

Haffiana · 30/07/2022 09:40

This particular refugee has only £8,000 in savings however.

A refugee with £8000 in savings is not eligible for universal credit.

Applying for it would be attempting fraud.

They must not have over £6000 in savings.

This isnt open for debate.

waterrat · 30/07/2022 09:49

I have sympathy for everyone in this situation. Having someone in your home is very very intense - my friend took a couple in and hated it! And she is a refugee herself so really understood what they were going through.

FOr those saying the savings should be used - as that is what they are for. Please try to remember this is not the same as a UK resident using savings for a boiler repair - this family have to consider that they may want to return to the Ukraine and rebuild their lives. It is psychological trauma - imagine your home you live in now being bombed and destroyed and the government being unable to help you.

This woman has no idea what the next six months holds - and she is right ! Because right now her host is planning/ considering evicting her and withholding some money she had planned on giving her.

This woman is absolutely right to be very very careful about how she spends her only security -

If you read Primo Levis book about the holocaust - he talks about how only the selfish survives. he says 'the best of us did not live' that is because survival instincts are what we may call 'selfish'

If you think 'good refugees' were always thinking of others you are very wrong.

It may appear to you that this woman is 'safe' so she should relax - you are wrong. She is in a crisis situation with zero security and her husband could be murdered any minute - she has a vulnerable teenager to protect.

Try to reframe how you look at her situation.

Phobiaphobic · 30/07/2022 09:50

@RedToothBrush

👏👏👏

waterrat · 30/07/2022 09:53

'cunty fuckers here for a free lunch'

wow.

they didn't choose to come here - do you understand that?

Someone asked if I am hosting refugees. Not at the moment but I work with refugees and have done for years - I have experience before of watching these set ups break down. It's sadly common - people want to help but have idealised notions of what a good refugee is. Hosting traumatised people is a specialist skill.

Each of these refugees should have been linked to a specialist mentor or social worker who could help them look for work/ give them counselling but sadly our govt would never do anything so useful.

RedToothBrush · 30/07/2022 09:53

oopsididitagin · 30/07/2022 09:12

I'd love to know what all the virtue signallers are doing to help Ukrainian refugees, apart from sitting on their backsides and typing vitriol into their phones towards a women that's doing a fuck tonne more than they bloody are and going through it. You've done a fantastic thing OP, but now you need an exit strategy that suits both families and with long term thinking.

110% this.

Fair too many armchair idiots saying the OP should do more when she's saying she's done as much as she can, its making her family unhappy, the guest isn't stepping up to take responsibility and making efforts for independence and is instead is actively digging in to financially burden the OP out of selfishness. None of this is to do with trauma or culture shock. It straight up taking for granted and taking advantage of a situation.

Toomanybooks22 · 30/07/2022 09:55

@RedToothBrush this is incorrect. You can apply for UC if you have between £6,000 and £16,000 in savings. It's not fraud at all it just means the amount you receive is lower the more savings you have up to £16,000.

Haffiana · 30/07/2022 09:56

RedToothBrush · 30/07/2022 09:48

A refugee with £8000 in savings is not eligible for universal credit.

Applying for it would be attempting fraud.

They must not have over £6000 in savings.

This isnt open for debate.

Can you provide the link for that? It is moot anyway, as after paying for a deposit, they would have less than that.

BloodAndFire · 30/07/2022 09:58

Phobiaphobic · 30/07/2022 09:50

@RedToothBrush

👏👏👏

You're applauding someone for calling refugees

cunty fuckers here for a free lunch

?

Honeysuckle9 · 30/07/2022 09:58

@waterrat I’m not sure that comparison washes. The refugee living with me is from
western Ukraine. Her town has not been bombed or invaded. My friend is hosting someone from Mariupol , to which she might never return. They are two very different scenarios. However it is true to say that the future in Ukraine is very uncertain.

You are right though that survival is selfish and hosts shouldn’t see this as any form of reciprocal arrangement. You are doing a good deed and may not get thanks or gratitude in return. Best to make peace with that.

Shgytfgtf111 · 30/07/2022 09:59

You have offered your home to a complete stranger in a desperate situation which is more than many of us have done (me included) and if the arrangement is no longer working for you and your family then it needs to change.

I am sure that if the Op had posted about offering that she had housed her sister or sister in law and her daughter but now didn't want them to stay for a year from now the responses on here would be very different. It's a horrible situation for your guest but you have done your part Op, you have given them safe housing. If you don't want to open your home up to them anymore, that's your prerogative. Give her a deadline to move but support her to do so. You have done enough.

Dontwanttoberudeorwastetime · 30/07/2022 09:59

@RedToothBrush crikey.

MiddleParking · 30/07/2022 10:01

RedToothBrush · 30/07/2022 09:48

A refugee with £8000 in savings is not eligible for universal credit.

Applying for it would be attempting fraud.

They must not have over £6000 in savings.

This isnt open for debate.

Well it is open for debate because it’s completely untrue Confused

Circleofshells · 30/07/2022 10:02

waterrat · 30/07/2022 09:49

I have sympathy for everyone in this situation. Having someone in your home is very very intense - my friend took a couple in and hated it! And she is a refugee herself so really understood what they were going through.

FOr those saying the savings should be used - as that is what they are for. Please try to remember this is not the same as a UK resident using savings for a boiler repair - this family have to consider that they may want to return to the Ukraine and rebuild their lives. It is psychological trauma - imagine your home you live in now being bombed and destroyed and the government being unable to help you.

This woman has no idea what the next six months holds - and she is right ! Because right now her host is planning/ considering evicting her and withholding some money she had planned on giving her.

This woman is absolutely right to be very very careful about how she spends her only security -

If you read Primo Levis book about the holocaust - he talks about how only the selfish survives. he says 'the best of us did not live' that is because survival instincts are what we may call 'selfish'

If you think 'good refugees' were always thinking of others you are very wrong.

It may appear to you that this woman is 'safe' so she should relax - you are wrong. She is in a crisis situation with zero security and her husband could be murdered any minute - she has a vulnerable teenager to protect.

Try to reframe how you look at her situation.

This is an important post. Great need and severe trauma don’t always look how you think they should, in fact they rarely do. The impact of this level insecurity on someone’s capacity to reason and plan shouldn’t be underestimated.

Blueberrywitch · 30/07/2022 10:04

I don’t think 10,000 for a family of 3 is so much money that she doesn’t need any extra help if she needed to resettle. That would go very quickly. I don’t think you should go back on your plan to donate the extra money because of this savings - if you only have 10,000 then an extra 1,000 is going to be a lot!! Additionally, she’s still a woman reliant on a husband, perhaps her own pot of money will come in real handy one day for her and her child.

You’ve done an amazing thing OP and should be so proud of your generous spirit! I think it’s reasonable to give them the three months notice you mention, and give them the pot of money you had planned. Help her fill in the UC forms and be honest about the financial support from husband - with income disparity across regions she still might be entitled to something anyway.

don’t Imply that you’re sick of her attitude etc - just take the high road, take emotion out of it and wish them well on the next phase of their journey so that when you look back on this time you don’t have to cringe about anything you said or did.

Quincythequince · 30/07/2022 10:05

BloodAndFire · 30/07/2022 09:58

You're applauding someone for calling refugees

cunty fuckers here for a free lunch

?

Except that’s really not what that post said is it! Did you even read the whole thing?

The post was informed and considered and actually made a lot of sense.