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Original poster

Ukrainian guest …I’m not feeling comfortable

542 replies

CookieDoughKid · 30/07/2022 00:47

I’ve been hosting a Ukrainian mother and 15yo daughter since beginning of May. We get on ok although we live very different lives even before the war. She’s a SAhM and I’m a working mum full time. It’s been difficult for her to adjust because her husband used to do everything, such as banking, booking train tickets, appointments. It’s been a real learning curve having to stand on her own feet here. Fortunately she can speak some English so over time, I have been able to take a step back from supporting her on how to live in England. her dd will be taking GCSE exams next summer term.

My kids and her dd don’t like each other and don’t get on. The mother is a bit work shy in that she is very choosy about jobs being offered to her by the job agency. She does a week here or there. Nothing permanent or full time. She is not claiming UC after it was made apparent she would have to look for work or go back to work full time. Her husband is supporting her financially. I broached the subject of long term accommodation and the challenges of finding rent. I was surprised to learn they have 10000 USD saved, husband has a good job in software in Ukraine. They are prepared to rent but would rather not as they don’t want to ‘waste their money’. I know they’d rather go back home if the war was over.

I had pledged at the start to give them half of the £350 thank you money from Gov to be used as a deposit for their rent when they move on. That’s £150 a month I would give to them for the 12 months commitment. I keep £150. I know I don’t have to do it but I wanted them to feel like they have some longevity here without too much hardship. That was prior to me learning about their savings. With everything going on at home, me working full time, my two teens…I’m finding it all a bit much. The mother is lovely but so talkative and she’s always there. Sand my day is incredibly busy, I travel for work, I have my own children to look after.

what gripes me is that she also doesn’t pay a single thing or offer when I’ve said from the start she needs to sort it herself I’m talking about washing powder and sundries….she does pay her own food. I’m starting to resent the fact that she never offers to pay for dishwasher tablets, stationery paper, toilet roll, cling film, aluminium foil, washing powder, cleaning goods, kitchen napkins etc… It all adds up.

Come October, it will have been 6 months of me hosting. Would I be unreasonable to ask her to plan on moving out …I think I can tolerate them living with me to Jan 2023 (that would be 9 months in total) but she’s mentioned she wants to stay with me till next June so that her dd can sit her exams without interruption.

Should I ask for a household contribution? And what about the £150 a month I pledged? It’s not that I can’t afford it, I can but I feel I’m being taken for a ride.

she mentioned she wanted help in applying for UC housing benefit in the future which does not sit well with me knowing she is supported by her husband, has savings and is choosy with jobs?

fwiw, we both try very hard to get on. She’s helpful sith cleaning and so am I, and we have a good rhythm in sharing the kitchen etc. we don’t argue and we haven’t had any major spats.

it’s just that I am finding it hard to live with someone who is so different in outlook to me and living with us full stop. My dad was a refugee, he held down 3 jobs 7 days a week for a while and that work ethic is very strong in me (I don’t rely on my husband financially and never have but that’s my choice). I know if I was to live with someone not out of choice I would work really hard, and try to move out as soon as possible!

would like your perspective on this. I feel really guilty even thinking about asking her to move out but also, I feel they would have had 8 or 9 months free living so..isn’t that generous in itself?

OP posts:
DFOD · 01/08/2022 09:42

Honeysuckle9 · 01/08/2022 00:45

Emerald- it’s a mess and we are 2 months away from when many hosts will have reached the 6 month mark and most want to be done with it then

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/ukrainian-uk-government-refugees-war-homes-thank-you-letters-b1015775.html

I am not sure if “done with it” is accurate. I have a family of 3 adults that I am hosting for 6 months. My concern is what happens after that? It is not an option for me to host indefinitely - practically, financially or emotionally. The link above about letters to hosts thanking them for their efforts in my mind feels like a guilt trip or a manipulation - I would much prefer to have a letter telling me what provisions are being made for next steps - as I don’t want to be in a position where my family have nowhere to go. And I suspect we are in the same situation as in Ireland where there just isn’t the housing stock to absorb the need and the Government is focused and distracted by in-fighting, party leadership turmoil etc.

DFOD · 01/08/2022 10:10

Tauvuella · 01/08/2022 03:16

OP, thank you very much for all you are doing for this family - I fully understand the difficulties, and can sympathise.

I have a very dear friend, who spent 7 days sleeping in a car with her daughter and MiL trying to get out of Ukraine. Her home no longer exists - it was in the beautiful suburb of Bucha, just outside of Kyiv. I have visited her there many times. She had a beautiful home and garden, on a leafy street. Her husband stayed behind, and is now in the east, fighting a war that none of them believed was actually possible in Europe. People among her friends and neighbours have been killed, some of them in the worst possible ways. She recognises people in some of the most unimaginable photos of the destruction and torture in Bucha. She and I have spoken of their journey and some of the things they saw. I can't even begin to process it. And now they have nothing. They are my friends - just normal people. She can't even bring herself to say the word refugee and her 11 year old daughter has barely said a word.

Another friend lived in the centre of Kyiv, close to Maidan square where she joined in the protests of the EuroMaidan revolution, hoping for a better future. She left before the war started - taking a train to the Polish border with just one suitcase. Her home is fine, and many people have returned to Kyiv, she plans to go soon.

Another friend I worked with for years was called up to fight. He is a very big, tough and proud Ukrainian - he says he will fight to the death. His messages have gotten shorter and shorter now. I sent him money, and he sent me a photo of the brand new bullet proof vest he bought with it. He put his mother and sister on a train out of the country - he says his mother hasn't forgiven him yet.

Another friend was absolutely determined to stay. She took in 12 dogs from other families who left. She lived just outside of Kyiv - to the north. She waited for weeks, and spent time looking after the dogs and cooking for the Ukrainian soldiers who were nearby. Then they blew up the bridge to Kyiv and the Russians advanced so she made the decision to go. She found a local vet and had all of the dogs put down. She couldn't take them with her and she didn't want them to starve to death. She says that she will never forgive herself, and she never wants to go back.

I lived in Ukraine for a long time and I have many Ukrainian friends. A lot of them have asked me about the UK and if I think it would be a good option for them. I am very grateful to be able to tell them about people like you and the amazing sacrifices you are making.

In previous threads I have spoken about Ukrainians and the many cultural differences which make a hosting situation difficult, and I am not trying to minimise anyone's experience....just to confirm that in the vast majority of cases your selflessness and understanding, is much needed.

Thank you for anything that you do.

@Tauvuella I have tried to PM you - but it’s not working …. I would love to hear your insights and experiences of cultural differences if you would be happy to share?

Yarboosucks · 01/08/2022 19:17

My common sense comment was really based on a more practical level and is more linked to avoiding breakages and damages leading to unnecessary expense (for me!). It was not and is not linked to linguistic skills, though I can see how my paragraph structure may have inferred that. But using dish soap and warm water to wash plates and not running the 2.5 hour washing programme for 2 t-shirts does fall into the common sense bucket for me. Bedding and towels need to be washed (after 8 weeks, really!). When the sun is blazing, use the washing line not the dryer (as we do!). Equally, don't dry clothes in the bedroom, we have an drying/ airing room ffs! All facilities and norms were explained from the outset. My guests come from a city and lived a very middle class life, so this is nothing to with a sudden change in lifestyle either. They lived in a modern 3 bed apartment and have the same brand of washing machine as us.

The napping is not about giving us space, we have a very big house and there is no need to go to bed to give us space. Nor do I think that it is a MH issue, but it is something that they are accustomed to doing and did it at home apparently. She finds it very odd that we do not sleep during the day, that I don't take a long, full bath before bed (and a shower in the morning). We have had to ask that that stops as we run on oil here and our oil consumption was going through the roof. I have never been a SAHM and so there are some luxuries of that are alien to me (and many others I guess). My DH calls it "Princess syndrome" and I think her DH did indulge her.

I am pleased that they seem to be very happy and enjoying themselves here, they have made friends and have an active social life. However, when I start cooking dinner and then I have to wake people to eat it, after I have done a full day at work, I think even a saint would feel a tad annoyed!

The fact that someone comes from Ukraine does not make them above and beyond any criticism. I made the mistake of making life too comfortable at the beginning and it is difficult to introduce new rules and behaviours after that initial period. The lack of English does make it more difficult to have discussions, that is a fact. You either have to write an essay and pray Google translate gets it right or rely on small sentences and worry that they sound like orders.

For those levelling criticism or snide comments at me. I make no claims to being the perfect earth mother and I have no doubt that they have criticisms of me! But I have given a safe, very comfortable home and some considerable financial support to two people who needed it and I have no intention of breaking the commitments that I made. Maybe in is my British sense of good manners that when you stay in someone's home, you muck in and help. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me

Yarboosucks · 01/08/2022 19:27

For the sake of completeness, I should add that we do also have fun together, we go out, we have fun, we dance and laugh. We are firm friends and they will always be in our family!

I should also add that we have done similar before but with a single young man from Africa and he mucked in like our own son. I loved overseas alone and have travelled extensively.

My posts were to help OP because I can understand her position.

Yarboosucks · 01/08/2022 19:31

Grrrr! I moved overseas! Loved it too in fairness!

apintortwo · 01/08/2022 19:34

If you keep it, you’ll tarnish all the hard work and sacrifice and it’ll end on that note - which will erase all the good you’ve done.

Says who? Who exactly will be judging the OP for doing this? Please give her a break, she's done more than enough already

RedToothBrush · 01/08/2022 21:59

My common sense comment was really based on a more practical level and is more linked to avoiding breakages and damages leading to unnecessary expense (for me!). It was not and is not linked to linguistic skills, though I can see how my paragraph structure may have inferred that. But using dish soap and warm water to wash plates and not running the 2.5 hour washing programme for 2 t-shirts does fall into the common sense bucket for me. Bedding and towels need to be washed (after 8 weeks, really!). When the sun is blazing, use the washing line not the dryer (as we do!). Equally, don't dry clothes in the bedroom, we have an drying/ airing room ffs! All facilities and norms were explained from the outset. My guests come from a city and lived a very middle class life, so this is nothing to with a sudden change in lifestyle either. They lived in a modern 3 bed apartment and have the same brand of washing machine as us.

Strangely enough this is NOT unlike what I have heard from others. Uncanningly so.

890gkkk · 01/08/2022 23:01

When it comes to energy - imagine it was very very cheap. Not to get into the ins and outs of the wider conflict between Russia and Ukraine - but energy used to be pretty cheap and people never thought about preserving it. Long showers, using the dryer, heating on all the time etc etc would all seem totally normal.

RedToothBrush · 01/08/2022 23:08

890gkkk · 01/08/2022 23:01

When it comes to energy - imagine it was very very cheap. Not to get into the ins and outs of the wider conflict between Russia and Ukraine - but energy used to be pretty cheap and people never thought about preserving it. Long showers, using the dryer, heating on all the time etc etc would all seem totally normal.

Except the people i know have been at real pains to make the point of how expensive energy and water is here... And of course because they aren't actually paying for it, there's an attitude that goes with that.

forinborin · 01/08/2022 23:36

@Yarboosucks I think it is a bit ott to call someone thick just because they dry clothes inside, or are used to long showers. I dry clothes inside/ use a dryer and can take 30 minutes showers myself. At what point does it make me "not that bright", as you put it? It is just different to what you are used to, that's it.

forinborin · 01/08/2022 23:44

Maybe in is my British sense of good manners that when you stay in someone's home, you muck in and help.
I think if I "mucked in" without invitation in any of my Ukrainian friends houses when staying with them, they would have taken major offence. As in, I would have demonstrably indicated that they are bad housekeepers / hosts by doing it to my (presumably superior) standards. Say, similar to if your MIL came to visit and started to scrub the toilet or rearranging wardrobes.

When you are invited to or asked to help, it is a different matter, of course.

forinborin · 01/08/2022 23:50

RedToothBrush · 31/07/2022 22:06

FWIW I think the 'not very bright' thing is more a cultural thing and a hang over from Soviet Era where taking the initative just wasn't a thing. This is very generational, so younger Ukrainians are less like this. Brits take it for granted that you should take the initative cos we just do it. However soviet mentality was you just followed orders. This is problematic for Brits because they haven't the time and energy to micro-manage, so guests need to learn how to take the initative rapidly...

It is unlikely that a mother with a young child has even seen Soviet Union to any significant extent, it is 2022 outside, Soviet Union is 31 years as gone de jure, and 36 de facto. And I honestly don't recognise even "Soviet" Ukrainians in that description, but you seem to know better.

Tablechairtable · 02/08/2022 00:01

This sort of situation is exactly why many people haven't offered to help, me included.
You have provided shelter in your home out of the kindness of your heart and she has taken advantage. Yes, keep the the £150 a month. Different if she didn't have her dh financial support.

Yarboosucks · 02/08/2022 00:05

@forinborin I did not use the word "thick", I said "not that bright in common sense terms". I have met many very clever people who lack common sense. I made no mention of shower durations. I made no correlation of showering with commonsense. My post was not about you and was not intended to be applicable to you.

felicmargo · 02/08/2022 00:40

You are definitely NBU. I was in a similar situation.Young woman, partner and child. I went out of my way to help them, paid for flights over here. Turned out partner was not who he said he was - they had only just met - he was seriously creepy, I had real safeguarding concerns about the child, who was distressed in his company, and the mother was coercively controlled by him. All the initial money was spent on booze. After 6 weeks enough was enough - they wanted to claim UC and not declare work, I wouldn't accept this as their sponsor, especially when male partner was drinking all day, refusing to learn English and expecting his Gf to do everything. They left writing on the walls of their rooms, the new bedroom carpet I had put in for them was stained beyond recognition. I left them to their privacy, but found it worrying how they were living. I set boundaries, they constantly exceeded them, and the dynamic in the house became unbearable. Your local council has an obligation to rehome them if the relationship breaks down. Ultimately I did what I thought was the right thing - there are many success stories and decent people, but we were unlucky. We went through hell and it gets to the point where you have to put your family first. Feel free to pm me if you like. Don't feel bad.

EmeraldShamrock1 · 02/08/2022 00:53

@Yarboosucks I am not sure why your post is being picked at when it made perfect sense.

They are perfectly reasonable expectations.

I wouldn't be happy with the feckless use of resources or the lack of motivation towards household chores.

You're not babysitting, it is common sense unless they've free heating and hot water in Ukraine.

I'm amazed at the generosity from pp's.

EmeraldShamrock1 · 02/08/2022 00:56

@felicmargo 😮 scary.

Original poster
CookieDoughKid · 02/08/2022 04:12

@felicmargo I'm sorry to hear about your experience. Ultimately you still have done an incredible thing, even if they haven't shown appreciation. It's still a child's life saved for the brief time they were with you. Do you mind if I asked what happened in the end, how was it handled by the authorities if at all?

OP posts:
DFOD · 02/08/2022 08:24

@felicmargo how horrific for you and the woman and child. I suspect trafficking and I would alert the school, council, police or GP who are responsible for investigating safeguarding issues.

DFOD · 02/08/2022 08:27

There were many reports from international aid agencies that traffickers targeted Ukrainian woman and children.

RedToothBrush · 02/08/2022 08:34

felicmargo · 02/08/2022 00:40

You are definitely NBU. I was in a similar situation.Young woman, partner and child. I went out of my way to help them, paid for flights over here. Turned out partner was not who he said he was - they had only just met - he was seriously creepy, I had real safeguarding concerns about the child, who was distressed in his company, and the mother was coercively controlled by him. All the initial money was spent on booze. After 6 weeks enough was enough - they wanted to claim UC and not declare work, I wouldn't accept this as their sponsor, especially when male partner was drinking all day, refusing to learn English and expecting his Gf to do everything. They left writing on the walls of their rooms, the new bedroom carpet I had put in for them was stained beyond recognition. I left them to their privacy, but found it worrying how they were living. I set boundaries, they constantly exceeded them, and the dynamic in the house became unbearable. Your local council has an obligation to rehome them if the relationship breaks down. Ultimately I did what I thought was the right thing - there are many success stories and decent people, but we were unlucky. We went through hell and it gets to the point where you have to put your family first. Feel free to pm me if you like. Don't feel bad.

You should have sucked it up. All your good deeds have been updone. They were traumatised and you can't possibly understand what they were going through. Culturally its normal to write all over the walls and be drunk and stain the carpets. You selfish person in it just for the £350 which will cover all your bills.

I hope that some of the people on this thread are actually reading this.

Where its going wrong, its going wrong. And there are some people definitely abusing the system. Most arent and are lovely people. However there are a minority who have been a real issue and caused really well meaning people a nightmare.

There are people here for the wrong reasons. It was a wild west in who you got. Some people got lucky. Some didn't.

Its not hard to pull your weight and use common sense and take responsibility for yourself. Even if traumatised you get on and do it, because you have to - in other circumstances, the same people have to.

There are people for whom its going very badly wrong and they really need sympathy and support. They need to know its ok to say, 'this isnt ok'. The stigma from ending a hosting arrangement is awful. Such a breakdown is traumatic for those who experience it. But of course this is invisible because no one wants to talk about it because its taboo.

People coming on MN to talk about it and ask for support are disproportionately going to be the ones who are having a shitty time. Its to be expected.

The suck it up crew can go to hell. They have no idea either. I think unless you are personally aware of a situation which isn't playing out so well, then you can remind in cloud cuckoo land.

LampLighter414 · 02/08/2022 08:37

Exactly the reason I would never volunteer for such a hastily organised scheme

apintortwo · 02/08/2022 09:34

The stigma from ending a hosting arrangement is awful

Who is going to 'stigmatise' these hosts exactly? Anyone who dares demonise a host family who was only trying to help is plain vile and can do a running jump. Most sane people will agree with this

Mally100 · 02/08/2022 09:38

apintortwo · 02/08/2022 09:34

The stigma from ending a hosting arrangement is awful

Who is going to 'stigmatise' these hosts exactly? Anyone who dares demonise a host family who was only trying to help is plain vile and can do a running jump. Most sane people will agree with this

This very thread has already displayed that though.

Yarboosucks · 02/08/2022 10:01

I think much of the success or failure of the scheme depends on where you live and the support of the local authority. I am very positive about the scheme and despite my fairly minor niggles am very pleased that I did it. Our local authority and community really rose to the challenge and that makes a huge difference. But I am particularly tenacious and I really pushed the system. The child staying with me has a place at school; many don't. We have been given all the equipment that they need to cope at school and pastoral care has been great. The care and safety of that child is the driving motivation for them being here. The scheme was necessarily hastily arranged. Combining 2 households into one will never be easy. We certainly went into this with eyes wide open and being very clear of the commitment we were making.