Ukrainian guest …I’m not feeling comfortable

[CookieDoughKid]

I’ve been hosting a Ukrainian mother and 15yo daughter since beginning of May. We get on ok although we live very different lives even before the war. She’s a SAhM and I’m a working mum full time. It’s been difficult for her to adjust because her husband used to do everything, such as banking, booking train tickets, appointments. It’s been a real learning curve having to stand on her own feet here. Fortunately she can speak some English so over time, I have been able to take a step back from supporting her on how to live in England. her dd will be taking GCSE exams next summer term.

My kids and her dd don’t like each other and don’t get on. The mother is a bit work shy in that she is very choosy about jobs being offered to her by the job agency. She does a week here or there. Nothing permanent or full time. She is not claiming UC after it was made apparent she would have to look for work or go back to work full time. Her husband is supporting her financially. I broached the subject of long term accommodation and the challenges of finding rent. I was surprised to learn they have 10000 USD saved, husband has a good job in software in Ukraine. They are prepared to rent but would rather not as they don’t want to ‘waste their money’. I know they’d rather go back home if the war was over.

I had pledged at the start to give them half of the £350 thank you money from Gov to be used as a deposit for their rent when they move on. That’s £150 a month I would give to them for the 12 months commitment. I keep £150. I know I don’t have to do it but I wanted them to feel like they have some longevity here without too much hardship. That was prior to me learning about their savings. With everything going on at home, me working full time, my two teens…I’m finding it all a bit much. The mother is lovely but so talkative and she’s always there. Sand my day is incredibly busy, I travel for work, I have my own children to look after.

what gripes me is that she also doesn’t pay a single thing or offer when I’ve said from the start she needs to sort it herself I’m talking about washing powder and sundries….she does pay her own food. I’m starting to resent the fact that she never offers to pay for dishwasher tablets, stationery paper, toilet roll, cling film, aluminium foil, washing powder, cleaning goods, kitchen napkins etc… It all adds up.

Come October, it will have been 6 months of me hosting. Would I be unreasonable to ask her to plan on moving out …I think I can tolerate them living with me to Jan 2023 (that would be 9 months in total) but she’s mentioned she wants to stay with me till next June so that her dd can sit her exams without interruption.

Should I ask for a household contribution? And what about the £150 a month I pledged? It’s not that I can’t afford it, I can but I feel I’m being taken for a ride.

she mentioned she wanted help in applying for UC housing benefit in the future which does not sit well with me knowing she is supported by her husband, has savings and is choosy with jobs?

fwiw, we both try very hard to get on. She’s helpful sith cleaning and so am I, and we have a good rhythm in sharing the kitchen etc. we don’t argue and we haven’t had any major spats.

it’s just that I am finding it hard to live with someone who is so different in outlook to me and living with us full stop. My dad was a refugee, he held down 3 jobs 7 days a week for a while and that work ethic is very strong in me (I don’t rely on my husband financially and never have but that’s my choice). I know if I was to live with someone not out of choice I would work really hard, and try to move out as soon as possible!

would like your perspective on this. I feel really guilty even thinking about asking her to move out but also, I feel they would have had 8 or 9 months free living so..isn’t that generous in itself?

I think you've been very unselfish and done a great job. Hands up, I wouldn't be willing to host someone in my house.

You shouldn't feel bad, 9 months is a long time to share your home.

@Puzzledandpissedoff yes I understand I have to give notice to my council a hard end date as this will then signal an 'eviction'. Which is why we can't be woolly about these things.

I understand I have to give notice to my council a hard end date as this will then signal an 'eviction'

Ah, fair enough - I was concerned that the council might insist on waiting until they'd actually left, which is a different thing altogether

As you suggest it's important to do these things properly, and I wish you only the best with it; doing a kind thing shouldn't mean an open-ended commitment, though that's what it can all too easily turn into

Best just hope, when you have the conversation about no longer splitting the "thank you payment", that she doesn't insist on receiving the full 12 months' worth of the share ...

You are not alone.

Lots of people right now flagging up the end of the 6 month commitment at the half way point and being responsible and supportive by highlighting the process, timelines, costs etc of finding the next step.

It seems that you over committed initially in terms of time (over a year) and finances (halving the thank you payment).

It’s more than OK to reflect, review and change your mind now that the reality of the commitment in terms of emotional, time and financial cost and impact to your family is becoming apparent. Listen to your gut - and take action - have a simple conversation - don’t let it fester.

Be proud of the incredible effort and sacrifice you have made - but don’t let yourself slip into resentment and conflict because you are not attending to your needs and those of your DC.

You have done more than enough - your guest and her daughter will be fine, likely better emotionally (if not financially) in their own independent space.

I'm sure £350 is a thank you gesture to a host from a government, not a payment towards ukrainian families' expenses

You're quite right, it is, but very often when someone receives some money there'll be someone else along who feels they should have it instead

My council stressed VERY STRONGLY to me, that they will work towards Ukrainian guests remaining in their existing accommodation for as long as possible (by mediation)

Sorry, CookieDoughKid, I missed this when I replied to your last post, but it comes as no surprise at all because the lack of proper planning means they'll just want hosts to continue to do their job for them
No doubt they'll make (unavailable) mediation a condition of helping at all - in other words making up the rules retrospectively to suit - but fortunately you can't be forced to have guests in your home if that's really not what you want

And yes, it couldn't be clearer that you've already very kindly done a massive amount, but sadly some will always want more and call you everything from a pig to a dog if you don't wish to do it

I am also hosting and was recently selected for an ONS survey about the experience. There were lots of Qs around expectations, the impact, emotional stuff etc …. and others about plans post 6 months - ie will you extend this period and / or will you take a second family afterwards.

So it seems the Government are assessing the situation at least.

Why should she receive rent assistance?! They have $10k in savings! UC rules stipulate that if you have anymore than £6k in savings, that you cannot claim. 10,000USD is £8,213 as of this morning.....

It’s actually £1,600

If anything, this thread has shown how many people don't understand the benefits system and it's actually really concerning if people believe what they're saying. You do not have to be destitute before you claim UC. You can claim UC if you have savings between £6,000 and £16,000 but the amount of savings you have will impact what your receive. If you have more then £16,000 you can't claim. It's on the website Turn 2 Us it's quite clear.

If these savings are in another country - in the husbands name - are the obligated to declare - and can it be checked?

@DFOD That's a tricky one and UC claims qualification isn't something i really know about. I'm not sure the lengths they will go to verify as well. I know private landlords aren't allowed to discriminate but receiving benefits may prejudice the rental applicant. So this is something I'm conscious of.

www.entitledto.co.uk/help/working-out-the-value-of-your-savings-and-other-capital-universal-credit

looks like they are obliged to declare “savings and other capital held outside the U.K.” - but as other PP have said is a sliding scale from 6k to 16k - so they wouldn’t lose too much UC if they declared it.

It’s actually £1,600

$10,000 US ?? Please explain!

What I find difficult is that they spend a lot of time sleeping or napping. Any activity is followed by a nap. They don't do very much proactively around the house aside from emptying the dishwasher. However, if they see me doing my housework frenzy on Saturday morning, they will watch me for a 30 mins and then ask to help. They will then do one job, say wash the kitchen floor before going for a nap.
This is very common with recent refugees, probably more than a half of people I am talking to have exactly that. Not laziness, rather mental health issues.

The mother is not particularly bright in common-sense terms, though she is a graduate. Her English is very poor, so having a frank conversation is incredibly difficult.
I find it amazing that British people automatically assume poor (or even just accented) English = not particularly bright.

Spot on 2bozookas, thats exactly what I was about to say. No way in hell would I be working full time to make ends meet to hand over that money to someone who has the cash but doesn't want to waste there own money

Take your kids away for a holiday with it once the other family has left and spoil your kids abit 😊

I think I'd want a nap in her circumstances!!

Is it a nap - or is it retiring to the bedroom to give your family some space / privacy?

I think with the cleaning you need a rota - they can take on the same chores that get done each day or each week. Do your own DCs help with chores? If there are 5 of you now in the house - draw up a rota. Be a team. It’s quite passive aggressive to clean like frenzy and expect people to mind read. I know I have this tendency - but if after the first time - the penny hasn’t dropped - then you need to be direct

Re the £350 a month.

To reflect on this BEFORE guests even arrived many hosts forked out money for:

Suitable furniture (beds, wardrobes, bedding etc)
Gas safety certificate
Extra household things you might not consider like pots and pans
Other household repairs / safety things they probably wouldn't have
Taken time off work to do council meetings

Then when guests arrived, many didn't have their emergency money within 48hrs as they should, so guests will have fed at least until then in most cases. There would often be other sundry expenses immediately before / upon arrival for things like toiletries.

Then despite getting £200 emergency money, UC didn't come through for 6 weeks or so. Leaving guests with the dilema of whether to feed their guests or not. Some simply couldn't afford to. Others did for good will. So you are looking at feeding them for around 6 weeks before they had any money to pay for things themselves.

Now what about guests with kids in school. Some people got them in before they got their UC. They probably could get uniform second hand, but what about stuff like pens, calculators etc? Who paid for that? The magic refugee fairy or hosts?

Money for gas and electric in this time??! Yeah right!

Then there's stuff like general wear and tear to your property from having a family who don't have a stake in your property (and therefore don't necessarily respect it and use it as carefully as you).

I know hosts who are saying its cost then thousands to this point. They haven't had their £350 a month until about 8 weeks in many cases.

Some have said they will cover gas and electric - which might be pie in the sky, when increased bills come in, over the autumn.

I think there will be VERY few hosts who actually come away many a tangible amount of money from hosting. I don't know anyone who thinks they will come up in profit and its certainly not in the forefront of minds, in terms of making money. It is in minds in terms of hosts having a real issue in cashflow.

But no one talks about the reality of this Outside The Bubble. And that is very much what it seems to be. Outside there are all these people who Know All About Refugees. And the people who are actually in the bubble directly getting their hands dirty with it and are up to their neck dealing with it day to day - either hosting or very closely involved with it.

FWIW I think the 'not very bright' thing is more a cultural thing and a hang over from Soviet Era where taking the initative just wasn't a thing. This is very generational, so younger Ukrainians are less like this. Brits take it for granted that you should take the initative cos we just do it. However soviet mentality was you just followed orders. This is problematic for Brits because they haven't the time and energy to micro-manage, so guests need to learn how to take the initative rapidly...

I think there will be VERY few hosts who actually come away many a tangible amount of money from hosting. I don't know anyone who thinks they will come up in profit and its certainly not in the forefront of minds, in terms of making money. It is in minds in terms of hosts having a real issue in cashflow.

Definitely not.

£350 isn't enough to cover the extra expenses.

It took 5 month's to agree a host payment from the government in Ireland although weekly payments were immediate.

The government are expecting hosts to continue the arrangement indefinitely.
There is a huge housing crisis in Ireland and hosts have no hope of finding alternative accommodation for their guests.

I have been volunteering with a Ukrainian charity and everything seems hopeless, there is 1000's of requests for accommodation daily.

Most hotels are unavailable for tourists it is having a knock on effect with local stores.

Student accommodations are housing refugees these will need to be returned to the university in September.

Army tents have opened as temporary accommodation - it'll be freezing throughout winter months, unfortunately the government is never in a rush but they'll need to find suitable housing somewhere.

The worst part is in Ireland there is tight rental controls in pressure zones but not the countryside which has increased rents by 80% in some areas knowing the business is available, the current tenants cannot afford the increase.

Emerald- it’s a mess and we are 2 months away from when many hosts will have reached the 6 month mark and most want to be done with it then

@RedToothBrush this is just incorrect, ex-soviet states regularly rank among the hardest working in the world. I also think you might be over estimating the British culture of taking the initiative generally, perhaps it’s true but I’ve not seen a whole lot of objective research suggesting this at all.

They will receive rental insistence in most cases in Ireland there is no where available for rent, the means test is very generous.

There was over 10,000 DC in homeless accommodation prior to the Russian invasion.

The direct provision centres where Ireland holds refugees for years usually from Africa or the Middle East the children spend years in horrible camps have no hope of improving their housing situation.

They can't work or claim benefits in asylum direct provision although I'm happy the Ukrainians are being treated respectfully, it should be across the board.

If you're unfamiliar with direct provision Ireland have a Google search. 😓

OP, thank you very much for all you are doing for this family - I fully understand the difficulties, and can sympathise.

I have a very dear friend, who spent 7 days sleeping in a car with her daughter and MiL trying to get out of Ukraine. Her home no longer exists - it was in the beautiful suburb of Bucha, just outside of Kyiv. I have visited her there many times. She had a beautiful home and garden, on a leafy street. Her husband stayed behind, and is now in the east, fighting a war that none of them believed was actually possible in Europe. People among her friends and neighbours have been killed, some of them in the worst possible ways. She recognises people in some of the most unimaginable photos of the destruction and torture in Bucha. She and I have spoken of their journey and some of the things they saw. I can't even begin to process it. And now they have nothing. They are my friends - just normal people. She can't even bring herself to say the word refugee and her 11 year old daughter has barely said a word.

Another friend lived in the centre of Kyiv, close to Maidan square where she joined in the protests of the EuroMaidan revolution, hoping for a better future. She left before the war started - taking a train to the Polish border with just one suitcase. Her home is fine, and many people have returned to Kyiv, she plans to go soon.

Another friend I worked with for years was called up to fight. He is a very big, tough and proud Ukrainian - he says he will fight to the death. His messages have gotten shorter and shorter now. I sent him money, and he sent me a photo of the brand new bullet proof vest he bought with it. He put his mother and sister on a train out of the country - he says his mother hasn't forgiven him yet.

Another friend was absolutely determined to stay. She took in 12 dogs from other families who left. She lived just outside of Kyiv - to the north. She waited for weeks, and spent time looking after the dogs and cooking for the Ukrainian soldiers who were nearby. Then they blew up the bridge to Kyiv and the Russians advanced so she made the decision to go. She found a local vet and had all of the dogs put down. She couldn't take them with her and she didn't want them to starve to death. She says that she will never forgive herself, and she never wants to go back.

I lived in Ukraine for a long time and I have many Ukrainian friends. A lot of them have asked me about the UK and if I think it would be a good option for them. I am very grateful to be able to tell them about people like you and the amazing sacrifices you are making.

In previous threads I have spoken about Ukrainians and the many cultural differences which make a hosting situation difficult, and I am not trying to minimise anyone's experience....just to confirm that in the vast majority of cases your selflessness and understanding, is much needed.

Thank you for anything that you do.

If you’ve promised the money just give it to her and learn from this.

If you keep it, you’ll tarnish all the hard work and sacrifice and it’ll end on that note - which will erase all the good you’ve done.

In the end, you’ll still have your family and stable life when they leave, they face huge uncertainty and are surely in for a very stressful time.