To think there is little incentive to work hard in the UK

[BeachTree]

Context. 30's, no kids, single, work full time.

Just a bit disheartened. I have never claimed benefits, or any type of support, I work hard to make sure I can support myself (Not disputing those who genuinely require benefits/support) I have always paid all my taxes, and national insurance. I expect by the time I reach retirement age, the 'state pension' may look very different to what it does now and may not be available despite having paid in my whole life.

I feel sometimes that I pay so much into the 'system' and get very little return and don't 'take' from it, whereas there are many people claiming every benefit possible, and constantly 'taking' from the system they don't pay into. There are so many ways to extract money from the system but only for those who don't work full time. I know someone who worked for about 1 or 2 year in late teens in the UK, then worked abroad for a number of years, during this time did not keep up with national insurance payments and obviously not paying UK tax as no in the country, also didn't pay tax in the country they resided in. Returned to England to have a baby on the NHS, now residing back in England, claiming benefits as a single parent for 2+ years, gets assistance with rent council tax etc despite having paid next to nothing in to the system. I cannot compute how this is fair.

For example the cost of living payment, people who claim benefits will get £650, where as those who work and do not claim benefits will get £400. The cost of living crisis affects all of us - perhaps more so the people who work their socks off and aren't 'entitled' to 'support' The system is backwards and not in favour of people who work full time to support our ridiculous benefit system. So many examples - ie. people get help with rent, council tax, working tax credits etc etc etc - however those who work get zero, zilch.

AIBU?

I am a higher rate tax payer and I don’t think I will ever pay enough tax for what my family have had from the NHS, let alone everything else. DS1 has had several months of hospital admissions, several surgeries and is on a medication that costs probably £100000/year at least (they haven’t disclosed the deal they have struck with the drug company). We’ve also had IVF with genetic testing. Plus more usual run of the mill
stuff.

This and without people investing and completing these jobs, there would be no work for others.

Often higher paid staff are higher paid because of the responsibility. For example. They are in prosecutable positions. Think data, health and safety, etc.

Thats not how those jobs work. Nor how life works - I have to pay the mortgage, no-one else is going to come along and give me a house to live in for free.

Only now that I have reached some level of seniority after 20 years hard graft, do I have some flexibility. But I had to show that I could be trusted.

I have of course done plenty of low paid jobs while a student. I used to work on farms (because I'm from a farming background and have certain skills) during the university holidays, and no matter how much heavy manual labour and dealing with potentially dangerous animals I did, it was never approaching as hard as working in a professional job. Mainly because someone else was always there to tell you what to do. You didn't have to make important decisions for yourself. If you got something wrong, there was always someone whose job it was to explain to you or show you how to do it. If you made a mistake, someone else would cover for you or sort it out. You turned up on time, worked hard, went home and didn't think about the job until work again the next day. If you weren't one of the best workers, you weren't labelled as being not ambitious enough or not enough of a highflyer, you just stayed at the level you were competent at as long as you did the job reasonably well and turned up on time. It was so unstressful by comparison. I also worked in a factory and in a dog kennels and as a supermarket cashier (albeit while still at school) and every single one of those jobs was a complete doss compared to a professional job.

This idea that no-one in a professional job has ever done any hard physical work is one of those myths that some people who have no idea of the real world or how many struggle for years to make life work for them actually live. They think everyone in a professional job bounces out of Eton, gets a job with a friend and immediately commands a 5 figure salary. Or they think you can just hop from 1 well paid job to another in a completely unrelated field. So unrealistic.

This drives me bonkers. I earn less than my husband but I’m a professional with masters level quals. I have done it all. Shop work, care work bar work.

My husband (I did stay at home and was lucky to do so) is a very high earner but he never used to be. He was in the military. Honestly, no one needs to tell me about family sacrifice for crap pay.

These misconceptions are harmful and just keep people stuck where they are.

Low paid doesn't mean unskilled or not stressful.

vivainsomnia someone managing a team of carers will only be on about 25-28k max. More than the carers but not a high salary.

Except the increased responsibility and stress only seems to work up to a point - at the highest levels, it frankly looks more like a merry go round, where the same faces appear again and again in different guises, never accepting the risks and responsibilities that were supposed to have justified the obscene rewards. At worst, it seems these people have such astronomically high pay offs to get rid of them that they never need to work again, anyway, but can live off their thoroughly undeserved profits. There was no real accountability at the highest levels for those who effectively encouraged and oversaw the behaviours that led to the global recession. It took a phenomenal amount of lying and buck passing before Boris Johnson was forced to stand down - and in no way is he ruined by this. He will no doubt profit from the fact he was prime minister for years to come. It is therefore eminently possible to feather your own nest and ensure the middle ranks are the ones who bear the true weight of responsibility and carry the real risk of career ruination, while those at the top consider themselves to big and too important to fail.

No you are not being unreasonable. A lot of people feel like you and should be able to openly express. I am now on benefits (PIP and ESA) and have a son who is unlikely ever to do paid work. I have no problem drawing on the system though as my family and self have paid into it massively. Daughter and hubby, Son and his wife, Son and his partner x 2! Plus ex husband and his wife.
It is difficult but what an achievement when you have a sustained period of making a worthwhile contribution to society. I managed to raise a family of 5 and did 23 years in my second career.

YABVU, I work full time but still get benefits since my ex-H left me and our kids. I had a senior management role but stepped back so I have time to look after my girls. You never know when you might need help if circumstances change.

I expect you are saying this as you don't have kids. Many benefit claimants are single mums...i was one and no, it wasn't a tax dodge.
It's a bit unfair for you to come onto a parenting forum to criticise benefit claimants if you don't have kids, especially as you know that many claimants have them.

Oh but wait...i bet you are childless as you can't afford kids and people who can't afford them shouldn't have them etc.

The problems with the uk economy atm:

• life on benefits is shite, but life on a median income is barely any better in terms of the lifestyle it affords.
• quite stressful jobs with more responsibilities provide almost no better standard of living than entry level work (especially with benefit top ups) in many fields - see nursery manager pay, teaching, nursing
• working costs a lot so comparisons of income on benefits vs from work are skewed due to costs eg commute, childcare, having to be smartly dressed
• lack of time when working can push people to need to spend some income on things which cost more but are convenient/save time (public transport/driving over walking or cycling, convenience or prepared foods due to lack of time for cooking)
• there's huge wealth disparity. The vast majority of wealth creation in our economy is flowing to a small number of high earners
• there's poor social mobility. The tax system and prioritisation of return to capital owners is heavily weighted to keeping the wealthy rich regardless of their skills, abilities or other contributions beyond ownership of wealth.
• too much wealth is tied up in property values propped up by undersupply, low interest rates and government schemes to drive demand (help to buy etc).

I agree.