To think there is little incentive to work hard in the UK

[BeachTree]

Context. 30's, no kids, single, work full time.

Just a bit disheartened. I have never claimed benefits, or any type of support, I work hard to make sure I can support myself (Not disputing those who genuinely require benefits/support) I have always paid all my taxes, and national insurance. I expect by the time I reach retirement age, the 'state pension' may look very different to what it does now and may not be available despite having paid in my whole life.

I feel sometimes that I pay so much into the 'system' and get very little return and don't 'take' from it, whereas there are many people claiming every benefit possible, and constantly 'taking' from the system they don't pay into. There are so many ways to extract money from the system but only for those who don't work full time. I know someone who worked for about 1 or 2 year in late teens in the UK, then worked abroad for a number of years, during this time did not keep up with national insurance payments and obviously not paying UK tax as no in the country, also didn't pay tax in the country they resided in. Returned to England to have a baby on the NHS, now residing back in England, claiming benefits as a single parent for 2+ years, gets assistance with rent council tax etc despite having paid next to nothing in to the system. I cannot compute how this is fair.

For example the cost of living payment, people who claim benefits will get £650, where as those who work and do not claim benefits will get £400. The cost of living crisis affects all of us - perhaps more so the people who work their socks off and aren't 'entitled' to 'support' The system is backwards and not in favour of people who work full time to support our ridiculous benefit system. So many examples - ie. people get help with rent, council tax, working tax credits etc etc etc - however those who work get zero, zilch.

AIBU?

I think tax brackets need an overhaul, there should be a 10% rate before the 20% kicks in. The simple way to do it would be:

£0-10,000 - 0%
£10-20,000 - 10%
£20-30,000 - 20%
£30-40,000 - 30%
£40-50,000 - 40%
£50,000+ - 50%

So whats the point in doing a really tricky, stressful, highly qualified job with lots of unpaid overtime (or taking a promotion that involves that) if you only get just under 40% of what you earn over 50k? You would be as well doing it part time.

I personally think the personal tax allowance is a bit high in this country. It disincentivises people from working longer or harder because they have to overcome that barrier of paying tax and it disenfranchises people because they do not pay tax. Even a nominal rate, eg 2% kicking it at around £4000 would be better because then people would at least then know they are a taxpaying member of society.

Worked hard, now a SAHM through choice. Husband doesn’t earn a fortune and yet I don’t qualify as it’s if you earn less than £154 a week. Friend arrives from abroad - full benefit and yet never paid in. What I think is sad is people having to be paid benefits who are in work. Yes there will be the professionals who claim for forever and they shouldn’t and yet there are the ones who should claim and won’t / can’t/ don’t realise . Hate the fact that uk is seen as a easy touch

I thought you had to be in the country 3 years before you had recourse to public funds

What country did she come from, under what status, how long ago did she leave the UK, what benefits is she now claiming?

I also find it hard to believe someone is indefinitely signed off with depression. My relative had major surgery on their back and the DWP has her in every 3 months for assessment.

I earned more than £154 per week and could claim. Although I guess if you don't rent you might not qualify.

I'm confused. What didn't you qualify for?

I know 2 people who are on ESA for depression and have never been called up for re-assessment. Both have been on benefits for well over a decade... possibly close to 20 years
When UC is rolled out everywhere, maybe they will be re-assessed, I don't know.

OP YABU

The "system" is not like a bank that you pay into and take from as and when needed. It is more like insurance everyone pays in (and even those on benefits do in the form of tax on items/services they buy). You can go a long time paying in and not need to take from it. A lot of people never need to claim anything. A civilised society looks after the most vulnerable and poor.

If you are earning too much to get any help, then that is not the fault of the people that are getting extra help.
If you earn too much to get any benefits, then what would you like to see happen? People on benefits get less? Far too many think that life on benefits is amazing, and we all have the latest phone (you can be tied into a contract for years), a big flatscreen (flatscreens are the only TV you can buy now), a new car (probably paid for from DLA/PIP... meaning that person has a disability).

I have seen a few posts on this thread where people have said there should be a stigma about being on benefits... that people on it should be shamed and feel embarrassed. I got into a lot of debt because I was brought up to be too proud to claim. I lived for far too long on zero income and no savings... just got deeper into debt because I did not want to 'sign on'. I pretty much got dragged to the Job Centre by my CPN because the way I was living was making my mental health tank big time.
Friends/family, social media/MN... all of the judgemental comments about claiming put me off and almost cost me my life.
I do claim now and have done for a few years. I still feel ashamed. I am single... how do I bring up being a "scrounger" with a potential date? I don't. I just don't put myself out there because who would want to date someone on benefits? According to some on this thread, I would make their friends sick.

Sorry, I am ranting and probably not making much sense. I just fucking hate seeing threads like this, and all the benefit bashing. Stop punching down, and stay humble.

Yep

If you earnt £100,000 a year you'd be paying £35,000 in tax. Which seems fair to me.

I think (this might be from my selfish perspective!) it's hard if you're single with no children
Yes you get 25% off c tax. Rent/mortgage is paid on your own, gas and electric doesn't change much etc etc and you're not splitting any bills
My wage varies between min wage and maybe take home up to £1600. My bills are £1200 not including food or petrol. I can't work more hours as I work 40 a week and am ill enough that I can't work more but not ill enough for PIP etc

Min wage just isn't sustainable to live on with how prices are changing

I bet your single parent friend also works her socks off btw, it's not easy raising a child alone! And doubt she's living the life of reilly on the benefits you can receive, where as you probably enjoy the perks of working full time (holidays, new clothes etc).

And people that are entitled to benefits generally aren't able to work full time / earn a higher wage for whatever reason, they don't just give them out for the fun of it. If you really want some benefits why not 'have a baby on the nhs' yourself, become a single parent / take a low paid job / become disabled / etc if you think that sounds so much better

This is complete nonsense. Most (means-tested) benefit claimants are not working at all, or only part-time.

Of course there's an incentive to work. Its genuinely never occurred to me to think "oh I'll just jack it in and claim benefits". Or anyone I know (as far as I can tell from their actions anyway). I understand the feeling that as a single person with no kids that you're using less of the system than others, and cost of living can be horrendous, but as PP said you are presumably still using roads / doctors etc, and also none of us know what is round the corner. Any one of us is only an accident or illness away from needing a lot of support.

Also, and not meaning to sound like a dick, but I have a well paid, interesting job and am shortly off on my third holiday this year. How is that not better than not working?

I don't think anyone thinks life is easy on benefits.

But depending on your exact circumstances, it can be that your finances are not much better as a single person working full time, than someone with children working less/not at all. It can feel like putting in so much for little benefit.

I do think life has to always be noticeably better working full time, and for a lot of people in the UK it isn't. I know many people choosing to work just a few hours because benefit clawbacks mean it wouldn't make a huge financial difference if they worked more.

@Bordesleyhills why do you feel you should be able to claim benefits though? It was your choice to not work so why does the tax payer need to pay you for the privilege?

I think it is learned behaviour, lack of confidence, social awkwardness, if you're brought up in a home when everyone is relying on benefits it becomes the normal whereas working is abnormal you calculate the benefits against the wages and not the longterm goals.

An extra 80 a week might not seem much but that 320 per month is brilliant when an expected bill crops up.

It isn't a decent life, it's harder stressful life usually plagued by local crime as most people in the area live the same, your DC constantly miss out.

It is a life with high cost loans and budgeting for an extra milk and bread.

Boredom creates antisocial behaviour.

I think it is a disservice to DC teaching them this way of life.

I have been really poor before, there is every incentive to earn a wage.

Imagine being arrogant AND on benefits. Oh wait...I can just read page one alone of this thread! And I 100% back the OP as I'm in the same boat. But I don't get angry. No. I just vote Tory. And will do again in 2024.

Seconded. Most work 16 hours a week max to claim the maximum amount of UC afforded to them. No one on benefits works full time. For one, it make zero sense to make the same money working you could make sat on your derriére for that 21.5 hours a week.

Well sorry to disappoint but I have always worked

Try again!

I have always worked ft and received benefits as a single parent up until a couple of years ago when I out earned them and just got child benefit.
I didn't earn much more than if I'd worked ft, but I have a great reputation with local employers and have a job paying a bit more now because of that.
Pride didn't put food on the table and if working PT and claiming more benefits meant that I could do that as opposed to working ft and claiming less benefits, then that's what I'd have done. I was lucky I had a lot of free childcare which meant I could work more and it cost me less, some people aren't as lucky.

I don’t expect anything nor qualify . It’s my choice and I’m happy but it’s an assumption your a SAMH your on benefit