To think there is little incentive to work hard in the UK

[BeachTree]

Context. 30's, no kids, single, work full time.

Just a bit disheartened. I have never claimed benefits, or any type of support, I work hard to make sure I can support myself (Not disputing those who genuinely require benefits/support) I have always paid all my taxes, and national insurance. I expect by the time I reach retirement age, the 'state pension' may look very different to what it does now and may not be available despite having paid in my whole life.

I feel sometimes that I pay so much into the 'system' and get very little return and don't 'take' from it, whereas there are many people claiming every benefit possible, and constantly 'taking' from the system they don't pay into. There are so many ways to extract money from the system but only for those who don't work full time. I know someone who worked for about 1 or 2 year in late teens in the UK, then worked abroad for a number of years, during this time did not keep up with national insurance payments and obviously not paying UK tax as no in the country, also didn't pay tax in the country they resided in. Returned to England to have a baby on the NHS, now residing back in England, claiming benefits as a single parent for 2+ years, gets assistance with rent council tax etc despite having paid next to nothing in to the system. I cannot compute how this is fair.

For example the cost of living payment, people who claim benefits will get £650, where as those who work and do not claim benefits will get £400. The cost of living crisis affects all of us - perhaps more so the people who work their socks off and aren't 'entitled' to 'support' The system is backwards and not in favour of people who work full time to support our ridiculous benefit system. So many examples - ie. people get help with rent, council tax, working tax credits etc etc etc - however those who work get zero, zilch.

AIBU?

FLORENZ, what an idiotic statement, generalising that everyone on benefits drinks cider n smokes weed. Just wait till you get older I hope you never have to experience redundancy and try to be self sufficient regarding money and having to concede defeat and claim a benefit.

I sympathise OP. Single childless people on low wages are particularly disadvantaged in this country.

It's stagnant wages, a broken economic model and housing market.

None of us know what life is going to throw at us. Don't be so quick to get rid of the safety net.

As someone who has to pay for prescriptions- even though I’m on a lower salary- quite frankly it pisses me off that people on benefits get them for free when they’re already receiving free money (and no, I am not including disabled people or single parents here before anyone comes for me!).

Next time the pharmacist asks if I pay for my prescriptions (as they always do), I am tempted to ask if I have a choice.

I used to work a very long hours, on-call but even then, saved enough to put a decent deposit down on a house.
I was like the op, single no kids bla blah blah....

Fast forward, a child, partner dies, part time work, schooling .. taking from the system... nothing stands still.

Anyone who works FT is considerably better off than a waster boozing in a park, its that attitude that EU workers bucked, came here, worked for MW, progressed and then returned to Poland etc, bought some land and built a lovely house... which is exactly what Polish friends of mine did.

the English need to raise their game and stop fucking moaning, do more hours and improve their lot and then be happy to help those who for whatever reason, cannot.

@Florenz- 😂 you’re naughty! And it’s not always cider, where I live they drink vodka instead!

The tories are really going to walk the next election.

There are so many ways to extract money from the system but only for those who don't work full time.

Actual cash, you don't extract much. But think about all the other things. Roads, libraries, infrastructure, information, healthcare, even if you don't use the emergency services they are there. So many things you get as part of society.

Most people, unless you're a high earner will be net takers. You included probably.

It wasn’t because of this, but when I realised I was flogging myself working full time for no better reason than that I was able-bodied, had the time and had been sold the notion that it’s the done thing, I calculated that I could still to afford to live very comfortably on part time wages, I decided to just do it and go part time. Still don’t claim any benefits, still pay into my own pension, still pay NI and tax proportionate to my earnings, but I feel a little more comfortable with my work-life balance, and less inclined to feel like everyone else is living the life of Riley on benefits while I slog my guts out paying for it. It was a fallacy to think I was able bodied, in reality full time high-pressured work had me stumbling from one burn out depressive crisis to another, and that doesn’t happen anymore.

I like the idea of a Universal Basic Income, then everyone gets enough and nobody is resentful of anyone else.

I agree OP the social contract is broken. Previous generations if you ‘worked hard’ ie full time you’d be able to afford a home, family, modest lifestyle with a few ‘treats’. Although everyone comes back with ‘well in the olden days women had to give up work when they had kids’ this would be impossible now. I’d give anything to afford a mortgage just with DHs salary! You work your arse off and life gets harder and more tight. Meanwhile some people in better positions (looking at you PIL) shrug and say ‘oh well this huge pensions weren’t sustainable’ (yes but you’re certainly enjoying them…) and ‘cheap credit was bound to end’ (why were you advocating us stretching ourselves for the mortgage!).
Aaargh! Yes frustrating. The squeezed middle is shit.

I suppose you think I don't work hard cause I earn barely above minimum wage and get some top up. I'd love to have a better paid job but have suffered anxiety since I was at school and it's affected me a lot over the years. This is the only job I have been able to cope with. It's not simply playing system.

Yanbu op. The benefits system needs a big overhaul so that there is always an incentive to work/work hard. I agree that those that are really disabled and cannot undertake any job should have a decent level of comfort but for everyone else it really should be the minimum. Those on benefits seem to be getting more and more lately yet those who work and don't take from the system get less and less (inflation higher than wages)

I don’t get any benefits, because fortunately for me, I’m not disabled, ill or unemployed.

I wouldn’t swap my good health for a life of grinding poverty on benefits.

Why are so many people under the illusion that just because they don't receive benefits they don't 'take' anything from the state?

Presumably you were delivered at a nice safe NHS hospital by midwives who were trained by the NHS. Received over a decade of state education and if you are in your 30s probably had government subsidised university fees. Immunised on the NHS from all those nasty diseases that people from countries without 'the state' have to suffer. You can sleep soundly tonight knowing that it isnt legal for someone to come and break into your house because we have a functioning legal and policing system, a prison system to keep dangerous criminals locked away so they cant rape/rob you walking down the street. The ministry of defence and armed forces are making sure countries with hostile intentions can't just come and drop a bomb on your house. Your friends and family are hopefully healthy but if they arent and they get sick or fall on hard times the state will be there for them, as it would be for you.

So yeah, dont tell yourself that you don't 'take' cause it's just BS.

Tough to know how to reply to this. You don't come across as goady but on the other hand your anecdata is very small and biased and in that instance, what do you think is "fair" for the mother and child?

The PIP threads on here from time to time are shocking so if people are getting that you can pretty much guarantee they deserve it and that's before you get to the UC threads. I think some people think you just fill in an online form for "benefits" and your life is fixed.

@PlanetNormal you're talking out of your arse.

Why do you think diagnosis of Autism /ADHD are so high?

Two income family here with a child with a diagnosis. Never claimed a thing for her.

I agree with the fact that the system is clearly not working. I think we should all be turning our attentions upwards rather than to those below, though.

There are children growing up in poverty. It takes a selfish person to resent paying taxes which help parents look after them.

We are not Victorians.

A) "taking" from the system can be done in many ways
B) less inflation and higher wages needs addressing but shouldn't be greyed into this debate

As someone who needed to use the benefit system a few years back when my partner was laid off, and then I was too (we have both always worked) I can tell you it's not easy or nice and we got back into work ASAP as we hated it. We had two children at the time.

However I know of some people on disability but there's really nothing wrong or stopping them working, and they are getting far more than we ever did on benefits. Huge sums of money, brand new cars on disability too.

Some people absolutely do abuse the system but having been in a well paid job and going onto benefits I was so grateful for them. And it wasn't easy either having to frequently visit a job centre etc I felt judged.

I'm so glad the benefit system is there to help people who need it. The problem with society is like others have said is shit paid jobs and so much more. The rich get richer as they say. I see why you feel like you do it's honestly unfair, but it's aimed at the wrong people in my opinion.

@Belephant i completely agree. I’ve helped a few friends navigate the ‘benefits system’ and it’s a shoddy nightmare trying to decline any help at every opportunity. They’re certainly not handing cash out like sweets.