Can i have a rant about my Ukrainian guest

[fakenamefornow]

Context, normal family home with teenage school children. Taken in mum and six year old, they're living in our spare bedroom (with ensuite) and living as part of the family. We didn't know them previously and they came directly from Ukraine to us. They're both lovely and generally easy to live with, been with us one month, no regrets. Just need a little anonymous rant to let off steam though.

Ukraine seems better than the UK in every way.

The food. She's a very good cook and makes lovely Ukrainian dinners for us. But British food is terrible, Ukrainian people would never eat so much processed food (she might have a point). They have processed food in Ukraine but only foreigners eat it. Ukrainians always cook fresh.

The health care. She's had three medical emergencies with her child since being here. First one, child had temperature of 38, (bouncing around playing looking in perfect health to me.) She was astonished that a doctor wouldn't immediately come to house to see child. Arranged GP appointment that afternoon (she doesn't drive, I had to take her) . Upset, angry and confused that antibiotics weren't given. She really just couldn't understand it at all. I Ukraine a doctor would have come to the house, day or night, and given medication, you treat small things immediately so they don't get big. Child had three days off school and spent the whole time running around playing.

Child had tiny abscess on gum, no pain or any other symptoms. This necessitated an immediate trip to the out of hours minor injuries unit (still appalled doctor wouldn't come to house). No treatment, told to ring 111 in the morning. I live in an NHS dentistry desert but because they've come from Ukraine a local dentist has taken them on as NHS patients. Had emergency dental appointment next day. Dentist said leave it alone, come back in two months time or if problem develops with it. Mum wanted minor surgery to remove/empty it and antibiotics. More anger and confusion. She can't believe how bad medical care is here (again, she might have a point). Anyway, more time off school for this.

Her appointment for biometrics was messed up (their fault not her's) and she missed the card delivery. So bureaucracy and postal service doesn't work here. She's applied for universal credit, no money yet though, and it seems ridiculous that she should go to the office every week. Nothing works well in this country. Even the streets are difficult to walk on because the pavement is uneven.

I know many Ukrainian have lost good lives to take children to safety and life probably was much better in Ukraine than it will ever be in UK. Hopefully this is temporary and they will be able to return. Her life in Ukraine, was living in a nice flat that was her mother's (mother dead, now hers) with her brother and her kid. She's divorced, kids dad not around, no contact for years. Worked as office manager (small company, not high flying) with good salary.

Really, she's lovely and very grateful.
I just need a little rant about a few things.

I would say that many nationalities will big up their own country which is v alien to us. A friend came from east Germany and anything she found negative in the UK was always accompanied with how much better it is in East Germany (and this was not long after the full of the Berlin Wall , so I suspect East Germany at that time was not as wonderful as she made out) but people are proud of their own country, we are used to feeling that we cannot big up out country. I don't think that this is restricted to one or even a few countries, others do feel comfortable bigging their own up, and it is not bad to be able to feel proud of where you are from.

Every land has it's great and wonderful and also it's shit and bad.

Yes, let’s just give everyone antibiotics when they’re not needed, it’s not like there an antimicrobial resistance crisis.

Of course she's entitled to have a grumble but she is being very ungracious and quite rude. She has come here and you have taken her in out of the goodness of your heart. She is using public services that she has not contributed to yet she is expecting to click her fingers and be treated exactly as if she was in her own country.

DH is from overseas and his family are still there. The country is socially and financially disadvantaged. My eyes roll into the back of my head at how some things operate over there but I would never say anything because it would be very rude of me to and it wouldn't make me very popular. Instead I focus on the good things and speak positively about the things I really like/admire.

I'm not sure I could put up with the constant denigrating personally. Next time she starts up I would be inclined to ask her if all Ukrainians were equally rude and undiplomatic but that's just me....

I have done two international exchanges for study and lived/worked in a few different countries as well. It definitely sounds like culture shock to me. If it's really grating on you then have a quiet word in an "I'm not sure if you realise how this might come across" kind of way. But moving countries alone is hard, let alone having to do it because you had little choice in the matter due to war. She will likely get over it in time.

For what it's worth, when I lived in the UK I also felt like a lot of processed food was eaten (and I come from a totally different part of the world!). If you're not used to it, it can seem like a glaring difference.

Ps I have seen this in friends from all over the world

Sadly, you are right about UK healthcare. I think many U.K. citizens are aware healthcare is v bad at the momennt. The reasons are multi factorial of course. Staff shortages due the government not training enough nurses and doctors which has been exacerbated further by Brexit and covid. In the decade following the global financial crisis in 2008, the health service faced the most prolonged spending squeeze in its history: between 2009/10 and 2018/19 health spending increased by an average of just 1.5% per year in real terms, compared to a long-term average increase of 3.6 per cent per year. It’s sad to see and I can’t help but think it’s deliberate by the Conservative governments we have had since 2010.
There are fortunes to be made by the few by privatising the NHS and switching it to a US style profit model healthcare system. Yes, there are other models than the US system, Other European healthcare systems combine some co pay with non profit insurance models but this government do not discuss these models. Why?

She's probably very very homesick.

This made me laugh. In Australia English people are known as 'whinging Poms' for exactly the reasons you outlined in this post. :)

I agree. And I was born in Ukraine.
I‘m familiar with the expectation that if your child has a bit of a temperature the doctor should come to your house and prescribe antibiotics.
I endet up growing up in a Western European country (not the UK) where this wasn’t the norm at all and it took my family a while to adjust.
My grandma still can’t understand why we don’t give our kids medicine for every minor sniffle.

It's tricky - on one hand, she's lost a place she loves and so is not going to be heaping praise on what is obviously a place of refuge and safety; on the other hand, her comments make you feel defensive about our albeit slightly shoddy country.

I think it is outrageous they are prioritised over British children for NHS dentistry. I know children who have been waiting more than 3 years to see an NHS dentist. Does she realise her children are getting better care than British ones?

I have heard this from many Ukrainians. Their family didn’t like it in Bratislava. Too small and too quiet. Others didn’t like Germany. The town they were hosted in was too industrial and too ‘small town like’. Also very German. Not keen on England- the weather not good and the food TERRIBLE. And the English mentality. (?)
Warsaw was alright because similar to Kiev.

Is she blaming you? If not then (apart from the antibiotics and house visits maybe) she has a point. Health care is shit. I've got a really bad tooth ache but the earliest appointment as a private (!!) Patient I can get is September. I can't even find an NHS dentist for the baby. Services do suck and the roads are uneven.

Do you expect her to be blind because she's a refugee? She probably thinks you agree (as most unbiased people would) and therefore doesn't see her remarks as insulting.

If she realises this or not it kind of proves her point, don't you think?

Can I join you op. My guests are lovely (mother and four children). However I’m struggling with the fact the they are about to go back to Ukraine on a five week “summer holiday”, plus the fact that the husband is in Spain working, plus the fact that I know they have assets in Ukraine and didn’t declare these when claiming universal credit. They have been very critical of our schools. They can’t believe how much bad behaviour is tolerated.

This makes them sound awful which they are not but I am feeling like I’m funding economic migrants rather than people truly in need. It’s costing us a lot of money. I have to admit to feeling a little jaded by it all.

We lived in Sweden for a few years and shock horror even the utopia of the world isn’t perfect!

I second that! Lovely country, but the way the health care operated actually reminded me of the NHS - the GPs were definitely trying to keep you at a bit of a distance and not bother them with every little thing.

If the percentage of health care workers in the people you're letting in is lower than the existing population

Hey? Your claim is daft. There are shortages in nurses and doctors because the govt did not plan to train sufficient people in recent years. And what’s more it is immigrants who have made up the shortfall!

@Crocsandshocks I think you have hit the nail on the head. Homesickness and shock. 😢

Sounds a bit like my SIL who is from an Eastern European country.

Antibiotics are dished out like sweets to cure any ailment. Yes healthcare is free but the whole system is underpinned by bribery and corruption so those with money get good, prompt treatment, everyone else not so much.
During Covid the population were also very anti vax as politicians were not considered trustworthy.

I would take what she says with a pinch of salt.

Having travelled all over Eastern Europe including visits to Ukraine and having Ukrainian guests including one staying a year in 2001, I can tell you it is not some kind of utopian society where everyone has access to good medical care, housing and eats healthy and has a joyous life. Corruption is endemic and that dictates your access to most services, you can see doctors OK but the hospitals outside the main 3 or 4 urban centers are of a very poor standard compared to UK. All health outcomes from treatable disease are worse, including maternity. Neurological services are particularly bad. Mental health care non existent etc etc. You see a doc and get some pills but anything serious you are better in a UK hospital.
Plenty of processed food sold but you don't have to eat it either there or here.

There is more home cooking in rural areas but outside the main cities there is poverty on a scale way beyond Western Europe standards.

But the bottom line is that it is not good to criticise your host country where ever you are.
But you have to make exceptions for home sickness together with trauma.
We do, anyway.

Yes that was the point I made. Late dhs friends were forever whinging about London, but if UK people do the same they are called whinging poms. I should have called them names actually. It's a good idea.

The education system is very different in Ukraine. Lots of people describe themselves as “doctors” but this means they went to a healthcare focussed university/college. They’re not all what we would call doctors. Likewise every other person in Ukraine seems to be a “lawyer” but this means they went to a college that was focused on business/legal type subjects, not that they are qualified and trained lawyers as we would expect of someone describing themselves as a lawyer.

Doctors are apparently poorly paid in Ukraine. It isn’t seem as a desirable profession.

@AndAnotherTwo No. I don't think so. She was not complaining that her children receive NHS dentistry when British children don't. Of course our country is in a terrible mess, most of us know that. My point, however, is that they should not be given preference over British children for NHS dentistry. I am really shocked by it.

And this made me laugh as having worked on cruise ships for many years we found the passengers that whined and whinged the most were the Australians.
We used to dread a ship full of Australians.

As for the Ukrainian guest having a whine about certain things well she's right about some things but in my opinion is being incredibly rude.
I understand what is going on in Ukraine is horrific and having to up and leave must be terrible but that is not the fault of this country or its people and having a bit of gratitude instead of attitude would probably not only make her very kind host feel a bit more comfortable but also herself and her child.

Read @Ponderingwindow 's post again, it's a good one. There's nothing wrong with you needing to vent, and this is the right place to do it. There's nothing wrong with your guest expressing culture shock either. It's a stressful situation for everybody.

What is disappointing is that this thread has attracted a few really heinous racists and bigots with no moral compass. That isn't your fault though OP.