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Can i have a rant about my Ukrainian guest

658 replies

fakenamefornow · 23/07/2022 19:50

Context, normal family home with teenage school children. Taken in mum and six year old, they're living in our spare bedroom (with ensuite) and living as part of the family. We didn't know them previously and they came directly from Ukraine to us. They're both lovely and generally easy to live with, been with us one month, no regrets. Just need a little anonymous rant to let off steam though.

Ukraine seems better than the UK in every way.

The food. She's a very good cook and makes lovely Ukrainian dinners for us. But British food is terrible, Ukrainian people would never eat so much processed food (she might have a point). They have processed food in Ukraine but only foreigners eat it. Ukrainians always cook fresh.

The health care. She's had three medical emergencies with her child since being here. First one, child had temperature of 38, (bouncing around playing looking in perfect health to me.) She was astonished that a doctor wouldn't immediately come to house to see child. Arranged GP appointment that afternoon (she doesn't drive, I had to take her) . Upset, angry and confused that antibiotics weren't given. She really just couldn't understand it at all. I Ukraine a doctor would have come to the house, day or night, and given medication, you treat small things immediately so they don't get big. Child had three days off school and spent the whole time running around playing.

Child had tiny abscess on gum, no pain or any other symptoms. This necessitated an immediate trip to the out of hours minor injuries unit (still appalled doctor wouldn't come to house). No treatment, told to ring 111 in the morning. I live in an NHS dentistry desert but because they've come from Ukraine a local dentist has taken them on as NHS patients. Had emergency dental appointment next day. Dentist said leave it alone, come back in two months time or if problem develops with it. Mum wanted minor surgery to remove/empty it and antibiotics. More anger and confusion. She can't believe how bad medical care is here (again, she might have a point). Anyway, more time off school for this.

Her appointment for biometrics was messed up (their fault not her's) and she missed the card delivery. So bureaucracy and postal service doesn't work here. She's applied for universal credit, no money yet though, and it seems ridiculous that she should go to the office every week. Nothing works well in this country. Even the streets are difficult to walk on because the pavement is uneven.

I know many Ukrainian have lost good lives to take children to safety and life probably was much better in Ukraine than it will ever be in UK. Hopefully this is temporary and they will be able to return. Her life in Ukraine, was living in a nice flat that was her mother's (mother dead, now hers) with her brother and her kid. She's divorced, kids dad not around, no contact for years. Worked as office manager (small company, not high flying) with good salary.

Really, she's lovely and very grateful.
I just need a little rant about a few things.

OP posts:
Ukrainianheritage · 06/08/2022 12:51

@zoeFromCity

For some reason I don't have a quote button on the laptop, only on the phone?

Where I am from, old Eastern bloc, UK and USA were (in the time of closed borders) seen as unreachable ideals and legends.We just considered everything we had as "normal" and expected you have everything plus many other great things on top of it.
The idea that UK is just another country with people and problems was a bit shocking :) And only after absorbing that shock, I was able to see that in some cases it was actually impossible to have both our and your perks in the same time. Either you have freedom to choose where you live or, as we had back in time, doctors well distributed around the country by assigning graduates to a localities the stated wanted them. Or, you live mostly in houses, we have more flats. In the areas with flats there is higher density of population, which results into better public transportation coverage (more people means that bus runs very often and still there are enough passengers)
Old Eastern bloc was relatively caring in terms of public services - paid for by heigher taxes and limited freedom in professions providing those services.

This is pretty spot on - Ukrainians expect all the same they have in Ukraine and more, and then discover it's not like that and are shocked. Though I'd say not many people idealise the States, most grew up with images of racism, homeless people on the streets, gun violence etc in America...

Also someone else upthread said that somehow people in the former Soviet bloc are more realistic about life in the rest of Western Europe but have a completely idyllic view of UK. I wonder if the same applies to all the people on the other side of the English Channel who don't want to stay on in France or any other countries they crossed to get here, but strive for Britain.

Ex-Soviet people grew up reading and watching Miss Marple and Sherlock Holmes and Winnie-the-Poo and Alice in Wonderland and Mary Poppins and knowing it's a monarchy, an actual modern country which is a KINGDOM - lots of people still imagine it as in those times/classic books. It takes a lot of adjusting to reality :D

KvotheTheBloodless · 06/08/2022 13:08

Ukrainianheritage · 06/08/2022 12:36

@WTF475878237NC yes, it's true, lots of Eastern bloc people would critisize the British way with food (esp dividing meals into simple/processed meals a-la school meals for kids and intricate dinners with various ingredients, like Mexican or Middle Eastern food, for adults - but then it's not only people from Eastern Europe who are surprised by it, my East Asian and French acquaintances were bewildered by fish fingers, nuggets, chips and peas types of meals for kids too ) but themselves would give them loads of sugary foods and as I said snacking is very normal...

and they eat more cakes, or rather gateau or torts - actually from the times when Russian Empire's upper and middle classes spoke French and everyone had a French governor/governess and the Emperor had French chefs, the culture of French patisserie and desserts became so embedded(like curries in UK) that it absolutely continued into the Soviet era, so desserts you may get in cafes and bakeries in Ukraine could be considered phenomenal or at least restaurant level in Britain...@fakenamefornow I'd be surprised if your guest hasn't complained about the lack of nice desserts in Britain :)

But then some of Ukrainian ways with food do horrify the Brits, like boiling the whole chicken or a massive chunk of beef into a soup 😂
It's because chickens for sale there are grown mature birds but the size of poussin here, quite lean and not great for roasting at all, and the meat can be a little tough, but it produces an amazingly flavoursome stock.

With kids eating and up at all hours too - first many families don't have a bedtime routine as such, but if they even do, for a pre-school child to go to bed at 10PM is completely normal. Actually discussions about how the British put their kids to bed sometimes at 6PM is another popular subject/shock among expats.

Though the reasons for it, like for many other cultural differences, come from economics, climate, the way the society is set up (NOTHING closes at 5PM in Ukraine) etc. What do the Brits think when they go to Barcelona and see 3 year olds running round the street at midnight while their parents are sitting eating dinner round the tables on the pavement? I am sure they accept it, but if they were to host a Catalonian family it would cause some problems if there was no previous awareness...the list goes on.

In Barcelona etc. we know that the kids have a siesta (afternoon nap) and so it's normal to go to bed late, they get enough sleep on balance. Many Ukrainian families currently in the UK have children that are awake till 11pm and up at 7 - that's not enough sleep for a child, they are chronically sleep-deprived which affects growth, brain development, mental health and ability to learn. It's the one thing that I'm really shocked by.

Ukrainianheritage · 06/08/2022 14:06

@KvotheTheBloodless daytime sleep of 1-2 hours is encouraged or enforced(say, in nurseries, summer camps etc) nearly until school age (which is 6-7) in former Soviet blocs countries, so I'd assume they do put their kids down for daytime sleep too?

KvotheTheBloodless · 06/08/2022 19:01

@Ukrainianheritage British schools/preschools aren't set up like that, so the kids aren't getting a nap. You'd think this would mean an earlier bedtime, but it hasn't thus far. There's no bedtime routine as far as I can tell, although I have occasionally put my Ukrainian guests' kids to bed when they've been out and got back later than expected, and the kids were asleep by 9 - still late for a 3 and 6 year old, but not crazy late.

If 7 year olds at school in Ukraine don't nap, how do they cope with the late bedtimes? Are they all just chronically sleep-deprived?!

cuddlybear21 · 06/08/2022 19:11

@KvotheTheBloodless what time do they get up? My kid goes to bed 9.30 and up at 8.30. She's five. It's fine. And yes, am not British

KvotheTheBloodless · 06/08/2022 20:14

cuddlybear21 · 06/08/2022 19:11

@KvotheTheBloodless what time do they get up? My kid goes to bed 9.30 and up at 8.30. She's five. It's fine. And yes, am not British

They're up around 7 regardless of bedtime.

Is your 5-year-old not at school?

mycatisannoying · 06/08/2022 20:47

God, this would get right on my tits.

OP, you are definitely entitled to your rant!

forinborin · 06/08/2022 20:51

Many Ukrainian families currently in the UK have children that are awake till 11pm and up at 7 - that's not enough sleep for a child, they are chronically sleep-deprived which affects growth, brain development, mental health and ability to learn.
Never did any harm to me or any of my friends. That's quite enough sleep for an older child. For small children there's a daytime nap usually.

Pollythedoll · 06/08/2022 22:44

Eight hours is the recommended amount of sleep for adults. It is far too short for a child attending school.

I expect it did have negative repercussions for you but you were not aware of them as you didn’t know any better.

KvotheTheBloodless · 06/08/2022 22:53

forinborin · 06/08/2022 20:51

Many Ukrainian families currently in the UK have children that are awake till 11pm and up at 7 - that's not enough sleep for a child, they are chronically sleep-deprived which affects growth, brain development, mental health and ability to learn.
Never did any harm to me or any of my friends. That's quite enough sleep for an older child. For small children there's a daytime nap usually.

It's not enough - the average 3-6 year old needs 10-12 hours of sleep per night, the average 7-12 year old needs 10-11 hours.

xogossipgirlxo · 06/08/2022 23:01

Ukraine is so great that Ukrainian people flood Poland and used to do it before the war 😂

UndertheCedartree · 06/08/2022 23:16

I have many friends from that part of the world and everything is better there. I agree that we do eat too much processed food here but of course traditional English cooking is made with fresh ingredients.

I think the medical issues are just a completely different culture. We try not to take antibiotics unless absolutely necessary but in some other countries you can buy them OTC.

Cw122 · 07/08/2022 00:55

They've just lost literally everything and are dealing with trauma while adjusting to a whole new country and way of life. I imagine this is just her way of dealing with that and I kind of think you need to let it wash over you and remember that it's homesickness and fear talking. I imagine it's pretty full on opening your home and trying to adjust to living with new people but you obviously wanted to help, this is the reality of the helping. So for me it's understandable why it's frustrating but unreasonable to let it get to you given the context?

Jourdain11 · 07/08/2022 18:28

As an expat, I think it's an expat thing partly. There are a lot of French people in London and wouldn't you know that in France absolutely everything is better and in London everything is shit. This is 100% not true - both places have positives and issues.

GladysAilwood · 08/08/2022 20:33

No you are not being unreasonable. But you have to understand how different they are, particularly the Russian-speaking Ukrainians who still hanker after much that they perceive was good from the old USSR - Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in Europe. On the surface everything looks great with free healthcare but the reality is you also slap down a bit of money to get the services you want. And there are people in Ukraine who act as fixers, to put you in contact with the best specialist for your problem. Ukrainians have absolutely no concept of true equality of service in the public sector.

GladysAilwood · 08/08/2022 20:41

Our experience with our English meals being rejected whilst being virtually forced-fed fried malleted meat as though it is going out of fashion has been so disheartening we have given up suggesting they eat with us. They just won’t. The rudeness is indescribable. Not once has our guest eaten with us, yet she cooks for us and leaves it out whether we like it or not.

Markedforsl · 08/08/2022 21:02

The Ukrainians I know talk about the amount of crime (everything being nicked), the government corruption, and that at secondary school in the part of Ukraine under Russian control from 2014 the children were taught (by the teachers they'd always had) that Putin was a God and the USA the devil, that they were actually Russians, etc etc. I did mention the trans ideology we have here, and they thought it was very funny. I had to warn them to be careful what they say, like under the Russians.

Sellie555 · 08/08/2022 22:35

Markedforsl · 08/08/2022 21:02

The Ukrainians I know talk about the amount of crime (everything being nicked), the government corruption, and that at secondary school in the part of Ukraine under Russian control from 2014 the children were taught (by the teachers they'd always had) that Putin was a God and the USA the devil, that they were actually Russians, etc etc. I did mention the trans ideology we have here, and they thought it was very funny. I had to warn them to be careful what they say, like under the Russians.

@Markedforsl oh yes my guests (mother and two teenagers) are openly racist. When I told them the lovely man who lives next door to me is Indian Muslim they were absolutely horrified/terrified/disgusted. One of my best friends is black and I’ve held off inviting her to my home as I’m not sure how my guests would react; They wouldn’t say anything but their body language towards her may be enough to give it away.

they also find LGBT very strange (altho the 13 yr old not so much so)

ukraine is generally very much in the dark ages when it comes to the acceptance of others who aren’t white and straight

forinborin · 08/08/2022 23:02

GladysAilwood · 08/08/2022 20:33

No you are not being unreasonable. But you have to understand how different they are, particularly the Russian-speaking Ukrainians who still hanker after much that they perceive was good from the old USSR - Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in Europe. On the surface everything looks great with free healthcare but the reality is you also slap down a bit of money to get the services you want. And there are people in Ukraine who act as fixers, to put you in contact with the best specialist for your problem. Ukrainians have absolutely no concept of true equality of service in the public sector.

I don't even know where to start with the level of knowledge here. Do Brits then know the true equality with the private healthcare (shock horror) existing in Britain? Where, you know, pay money and get treated faster?
Russian-speaking absolutely doesn't mean hankering after the USSR... not more than English-speaking Irish hanker after the British Empire Grin

blackcatnight · 09/08/2022 08:45

To add to my earlier post about the medical care in Ukraine, I can tell you that poor people are denied basics we consider non-negotiable. For example, cancer sufferers must pay for their own pain relief, and some people can’t so don’t receive it. Our cleaner talked about visiting a relative on a cancer ward and hearing an elderly man screaming and crying with pain down the hall because his family could not or would not pay for the medicine. I confirmed this with my own doctor at the private clinic, who explained the system in the state hospitals to me. And if you require stitches, for example, from a cut, you need to buy them yourself and take to the doctor, and the same with some injections. It’s normal for them. So middle class or higher have OK care, but the poor have sub par care indeed.

We were in Kyiv, the capital, and the worlds inhabited by the wealthy and middle class were far from what the majority of Ukrainians experienced. Another thing that was surprising about this was that because the middle class was such a new thing, its members were very ostentatious about showing that they did, in fact, have some money. Flashing brands and spending all your money on expensive items that others could see was very much the done thing.

Thereisnolight · 09/08/2022 10:30

The Ukrainians all do this…all Ukrainians think that… Do people realise there are 43 million people in the country?

Mascia · 09/08/2022 14:16

forinborin · 08/08/2022 23:02

I don't even know where to start with the level of knowledge here. Do Brits then know the true equality with the private healthcare (shock horror) existing in Britain? Where, you know, pay money and get treated faster?
Russian-speaking absolutely doesn't mean hankering after the USSR... not more than English-speaking Irish hanker after the British Empire Grin

Russian-speaking absolutely doesn't mean hankering after the USSR... not more than English-speaking Irish hanker after the British Empire

This. I was born in a part of Ukraine that is nowadays predominantly Russian-speaking as far as I know. That doesn’t necessarily mean people there wish they lived in the USSR again.

Couple of day ago I came across a Lithuanian woman, she was speaking Russian to her daughter and we got talking. She mentioned the language issue too - how some people assume that because she speaks Russian she is probably pro Putin. She was quite irritated by that.

fakenamefornow · 23/08/2022 22:16

Ok, another day, another rant.
I mean so much she's right to be pissed off about. Doctors appointment today, waited 25 minutes after scheduled time and some (not urgent) medicine given, pharmacists didn't have it in stock. This would never happen in Ukraine, appointments are always on time in Ukraine and medicine is always available. Fair enough to be shocked about the way things don't work so well here.

Secondly though isn't so understandable. Kid went to birthday party and according to mum was disappointed by how unimpressive it was. Party outside at very low key attraction. Basically a field with a bit of a playground and bouncy castle and some tables for drink/food, parents just standing around chatting (including my with my guest, she wasn't left alone) kids playing. In Ukraine children's parties are much better. They have much better food, children's entertainers and more activities, not just one bouncy castle. They also have things for the parents to do not just standing around. I was asked incredulously if children's parties are always like that in UK. I thought the party was fine and it was as much as my children would have got at that age.

OP posts:
fakenamefornow · 23/08/2022 22:23

These things happened over the last two weeks. Just two things, most of the time her and her kids are lovely and very charming and gracious guests. Maybe the kids party the other week just reminded her of what she's lost too much. I've never said anything to her btw, I just say this is what the UK is like. This board is just my steam valve.

OP posts:
Ramble0n · 23/08/2022 22:44

You seem to be finding things to piss you off about her.

Perhaps it's better for everyone concerned if she finds somewhere else to live.