Can i have a rant about my Ukrainian guest

[fakenamefornow]

Context, normal family home with teenage school children. Taken in mum and six year old, they're living in our spare bedroom (with ensuite) and living as part of the family. We didn't know them previously and they came directly from Ukraine to us. They're both lovely and generally easy to live with, been with us one month, no regrets. Just need a little anonymous rant to let off steam though.

Ukraine seems better than the UK in every way.

The food. She's a very good cook and makes lovely Ukrainian dinners for us. But British food is terrible, Ukrainian people would never eat so much processed food (she might have a point). They have processed food in Ukraine but only foreigners eat it. Ukrainians always cook fresh.

The health care. She's had three medical emergencies with her child since being here. First one, child had temperature of 38, (bouncing around playing looking in perfect health to me.) She was astonished that a doctor wouldn't immediately come to house to see child. Arranged GP appointment that afternoon (she doesn't drive, I had to take her) . Upset, angry and confused that antibiotics weren't given. She really just couldn't understand it at all. I Ukraine a doctor would have come to the house, day or night, and given medication, you treat small things immediately so they don't get big. Child had three days off school and spent the whole time running around playing.

Child had tiny abscess on gum, no pain or any other symptoms. This necessitated an immediate trip to the out of hours minor injuries unit (still appalled doctor wouldn't come to house). No treatment, told to ring 111 in the morning. I live in an NHS dentistry desert but because they've come from Ukraine a local dentist has taken them on as NHS patients. Had emergency dental appointment next day. Dentist said leave it alone, come back in two months time or if problem develops with it. Mum wanted minor surgery to remove/empty it and antibiotics. More anger and confusion. She can't believe how bad medical care is here (again, she might have a point). Anyway, more time off school for this.

Her appointment for biometrics was messed up (their fault not her's) and she missed the card delivery. So bureaucracy and postal service doesn't work here. She's applied for universal credit, no money yet though, and it seems ridiculous that she should go to the office every week. Nothing works well in this country. Even the streets are difficult to walk on because the pavement is uneven.

I know many Ukrainian have lost good lives to take children to safety and life probably was much better in Ukraine than it will ever be in UK. Hopefully this is temporary and they will be able to return. Her life in Ukraine, was living in a nice flat that was her mother's (mother dead, now hers) with her brother and her kid. She's divorced, kids dad not around, no contact for years. Worked as office manager (small company, not high flying) with good salary.

Really, she's lovely and very grateful.
I just need a little rant about a few things.

I have quite a few friends who are from different parts of Eastern Europe, and the one thing they all seem to have in common is a faith in antibiotics as the magic cure for any illness. Any cough or cold seems to need antibiotics and when I got ill during a visit to one of them, I was quite surprised to be given antibiotics at the pharmacy (it was not a bacterial infection).

I have heard a lot about the UK doctors being shit because they won't prescribe antibiotics. I'm not British either, but I've definitely noticed that this seems to be a cultural thing.

I looked at that rating.
The UK fell from 10th to 13th in just one year.
I wonder what position it was in ten years ago.

This ranking posted earlier

worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world

😂😂
Dp is from a former Eastern bloc country. Yep, she and her friends and family are extremely direct in their communication. On occasion, it does border on being obnoxious compared to English politeness.

At a recent BBQ, we spent all day and night discussing England, the English, Brexit and the old country and life growing up.
It was fascinating.

Interesting. I'm surprised the UK is so high, to be honest.

It doesn't sound like the healthcare system in Ukraine was very good in 2015.

www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0U60LN20151223

Soviet-era hospitals across the country of 42 million are crumbling, underpayment of medical staff continues to foster a system of bribe-taking and Ukraine’s poor vaccination rate has placed it on a blacklist alongside some of the world’s poorest countries, including South Sudan.

OP, as another Ukrainian I can explain to you a little bit.

There are plenty of anglophiles amongst Ukrainians (you are hosting someone who probably grew on Harry Potter), but due to the restrictive visa regime very few people have actually visited the UK - Europe is much less of a mystery as there's been visa free travel for years, and the US is also a bit easier to reach visa wise.

In many cases, Britain is perceived as a paradise. Not in the sense that someone is inclined to come and exploit the economy for their own gain, but it is generally seen as the most liberal, the most educated, the most well-off country.

What she has is an equivalent of a Paris syndrome. I remember coming here myself almost 15 years ago and being in a complete disbelief about the housing, for example - that someone could pay more than a thousand pounds pcm for a tiny studio with mold and vermin issues.

Modern ukraine is (was) indeed more comfortable for living than the UK from the "daily comforts" perspective. She just doesn't see (and hopefully won't see due to returning home very soon) long-term areas where the UK wins.

Interested to know what daily comforts Ukraine had over the UK?

In my work I have been meeting a lot of Ukrainians and to my surprise, at least three of them that I've been dealing with have chosen to return home in the last few weeks. Although, sensibly, seeking confirmation that their temporary protected status is still valid if they leave and return. It will be. I am not in the uK, I'm in irleland. When one woman told me she was going back, I asked if there was any level of normality there, buses running?, supermarkets stocked? and she said yes. I think that the amount of Russian soldiers sent in to fight is dwindling and some are deciding it's ''safe'' to go back. I really hope they don't regret it.

@Pooet

I also agree

It is and we need reform.

She is right though. Services are poor here, and the pavements are uneven. We need to sort it out really

Most were mentioned elsewhere on the thread. Warm and dry housing (despite not always aesthetically pleasing), great food (even supermarkets have tiny field-to-fork distances, and will sell fully ripe produce in season), very affordable or free extracurricular education for children (and quite affordable private schooling too), there are indeed free home visits by GPs for minor ailments which is quite convenient (prescriptions are not free though), great dentistry, again, with cosmetic treatment being affordable on "average" salaries. Beauty industry is very high quality and low price, I am on the mn- famous six-digits in the UK and cannot afford self care routines that my peers in Ukraine can on very mid-range salaries - I don't mean just purely superficial stuff, but things like regular spas, massages, detox and fitness.

I planned returning back in 2021, now that my job (and income) is mostly remote. Won't now due to the war, obviously.

A doctor who does house visits to a sick child rather than the non functional NHS out of hours service?

Possibly also things like more affordable housing, better quality housing, better quality food, subsidised public transport? A society less geared towards car driving?

Forgot to mention free or nearly-free universal childcare. Many women new to the UK just cannot believe how much it costs here.

I believe they train a lot of doctors in Ukraine (using English) I think that what all the students from Africa and Asia were doing. If they can train so many doctors I don't see why it's so impossible for us to do so. Perhaps somebody in the know can explain? I heard on the radio this morning we are short of 12,000 doctors and 50,000 nurses, wtf! Tory PM candidates are calling it a crisis while taking absolutely zero responsibility for creating the crisis in the first place.

As an aside, I think the antibiotic prescribing is terrible and also a doctor doing a home visit to a child running around playing with a temperature of 38c is ridiculous.

I do feel very embarrassed by my country sometimes, we have absolutely run our public services into the ground. We are a democracy though and this is entirely our own choice, I just don't understand why we would make that choice? There's often the cry of 'WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!' But Ukraine, a much poorer country (although I'm sure she's painting a rose coloured picture) can afford it. IMO, public services are things we can't afford not to fund. What's the point of organising ourselves into a society if not to pool resources or everyone's benefit?

With regard home heating in the UK, I'm dreading the winter. She says she has her house at 27c in the winter. Lovely for the people inside, but very expensive and most importantly not great for the environment. I do try to be environmentally conscious but this seems to have completely passed her by.

Anyway, anyone know why we can't train the number of doctors Ukraine can?

Presumably because we don't have the amount of back-up support/teaching staff to carry out the training.

Which begs the question, how come OUR trainee medical students don't go to Ukraine like the Africans and Asians do (not in wartime obviously).

I'm guessing that medical training is a money making thing in Ukraine?

The fact we don't have the teachers to train doctors doesn't answer the question, it's just another 'why not?'

Doctors train doctors, not “teachers”. If the doctors are training the baby doctors they can’t do as much doctoring. It becomes a resource and a safety thing. The BMA voted to restrict the number of medical training places.

I know how frustrating it is, I have a family of 4 Ukrainians living with me, I'm really happy they're here but of course there are culture clashes/niggles from sharing space with another family. The biggest issue for me is the difference in parenting - they generally ignore the kids and let them roam all 3 floors of the house and the garden whenever, which means we end up doing a lot of extra parenting (sorting out squabbles, getting drinks, cuddles for bumped knees etc.). They also don't have a proper bedtime routine, the kids (3 and 6) are awake and running about till past 10pm every night. They don't see a problem leaving kids home alone or smacking/beating them when they're naughty. We've put a stop to the latter two, in our home at least.

They in turn are horrified by how coddled English children are, and how dependent on their parents, and probably a whole host of things they're too polite to say.

It's swings and roundabouts.

They've been through some awful things, and they'd much rather be home in Mariupol (if it weren't for the bastard Russians). They're lovely folk, and niggles aside we like them very much.

Doctors train doctors, not “teachers”. If the doctors are training the baby doctors they can’t do as much doctoring. I

How come Ukraine manages then?

Cant remember if I mentioned it before but un a lot of places in eastern europe, including ukraine you can just buy anti biotics without prescription. My experience of their hospitals- they are like something from dr zhivago. I'm helping ukrainian refugees myself, but if you are utterly obnoxious and rude about a place which is shelling out millions and helping you, the you are just obnoxious and rude. I've never heard stuff like this about afghan and Syrian refugees, more of whom we should be helping. They also rarely have the option to pop home for a bit without being tortured, executed, forced in to the army or prison.

It's also cheeky as fuck to be demanding we put in a no fly zone, send our NATO armies or other things which will trigger nuclear war when in the months leading up to the invasion the Ukrainian government was warned and warned by the west but basically met that with mockery.

Dont be rude to those sheltering you or helping you is a pretty universal idea, I dont care how blunt a culture is.

This wint stop me sending mkney to ukraine, matching people with sponsors etc. But there needs to be a big attitude change.

We had a Syrian family at our school. Children so appreciative of teachers, the parents desperate to work and contribute, though not allowed to. The parents cooking and hosting a friendship group with locals so we could experience their food and culture. Their town had been destroyed, family still in danger in the country. They were the bravest, kindest people I have met.

The biggest issue for me is the difference in parenting - they generally ignore the kids and let them roam all 3 floors of the house and the garden whenever, which means we end up doing a lot of extra parenting (sorting out squabbles, getting drinks, cuddles for bumped knees etc.). They also don't have a proper bedtime routine, the kids (3 and 6) are awake and running about till past 10pm every night.

^ yes we are struggling with this. We had a conversation this weekend and they said in their family/culture (not sure if they meant most Ukrainian families) whomever is present does the parenting. So if someone's child is annoying you or misbehaving you can tell them yourself. I explained this isn't what we do here and that it's the parent's responsibility to stop the snatching, pushing over, writing on the walls etc. Although I have started stepping in now when I see something unacceptable.

The Ukrainian child we have is very well behaved. They are up very late at night though and do things like eat food around the house that I would never have let my children do.

The BMA voted to restrict the number of medical training places.

Anyone know why this was and also why they get a veto?