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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Can i have a rant about my Ukrainian guest

658 replies

fakenamefornow · 23/07/2022 19:50

Context, normal family home with teenage school children. Taken in mum and six year old, they're living in our spare bedroom (with ensuite) and living as part of the family. We didn't know them previously and they came directly from Ukraine to us. They're both lovely and generally easy to live with, been with us one month, no regrets. Just need a little anonymous rant to let off steam though.

Ukraine seems better than the UK in every way.

The food. She's a very good cook and makes lovely Ukrainian dinners for us. But British food is terrible, Ukrainian people would never eat so much processed food (she might have a point). They have processed food in Ukraine but only foreigners eat it. Ukrainians always cook fresh.

The health care. She's had three medical emergencies with her child since being here. First one, child had temperature of 38, (bouncing around playing looking in perfect health to me.) She was astonished that a doctor wouldn't immediately come to house to see child. Arranged GP appointment that afternoon (she doesn't drive, I had to take her) . Upset, angry and confused that antibiotics weren't given. She really just couldn't understand it at all. I Ukraine a doctor would have come to the house, day or night, and given medication, you treat small things immediately so they don't get big. Child had three days off school and spent the whole time running around playing.

Child had tiny abscess on gum, no pain or any other symptoms. This necessitated an immediate trip to the out of hours minor injuries unit (still appalled doctor wouldn't come to house). No treatment, told to ring 111 in the morning. I live in an NHS dentistry desert but because they've come from Ukraine a local dentist has taken them on as NHS patients. Had emergency dental appointment next day. Dentist said leave it alone, come back in two months time or if problem develops with it. Mum wanted minor surgery to remove/empty it and antibiotics. More anger and confusion. She can't believe how bad medical care is here (again, she might have a point). Anyway, more time off school for this.

Her appointment for biometrics was messed up (their fault not her's) and she missed the card delivery. So bureaucracy and postal service doesn't work here. She's applied for universal credit, no money yet though, and it seems ridiculous that she should go to the office every week. Nothing works well in this country. Even the streets are difficult to walk on because the pavement is uneven.

I know many Ukrainian have lost good lives to take children to safety and life probably was much better in Ukraine than it will ever be in UK. Hopefully this is temporary and they will be able to return. Her life in Ukraine, was living in a nice flat that was her mother's (mother dead, now hers) with her brother and her kid. She's divorced, kids dad not around, no contact for years. Worked as office manager (small company, not high flying) with good salary.

Really, she's lovely and very grateful.
I just need a little rant about a few things.

OP posts:
HungryCatGotOUT · 24/07/2022 10:40

Pooet · 24/07/2022 10:35

The NHS kills thousands of people a year. It is a pathetic pride and yes we did laugh at you banging your saucepans and being totally duped by the government that they are heroes.

You know NHS hit the rock bottom when people compare the UK with a thirld world country like India LOL

Wow - the UK has better healthcare compared to India. Amazing achievement 👍👍👍👍👍

Pooet · 24/07/2022 10:45

It really doesn't. I doubt the person who posted their British empire rant has ever been to India. I lived there for 4 years and used the health service just fine. The trouble with MN is these ladies Google and use for defending things they know absolutely nothing about and have never actually been anywhere else in the world. Ignore them, it's just sad.

Mascia · 24/07/2022 10:47

SeGermanCzech · 24/07/2022 00:39

And- and that will surely make me the arrogant German again- healthcare is shockingly Bad in the uk. While there are of course Great Hospitals and doctors basic healthcare is poor and sadly a friend of mine is now dying of bowel Cancer at 35 because her London gp only „Diagnosed“ her by Telephone 🤬

That’s awful, of course. A friend of mine has experienced something similar in Germany though (although luckily she survived).
Her doctor failed to mention abnormalities on her mammogram - allegedly the doctor rang her once, she didn’t pick up and that was it, till she was diagnosed with cancer a year later and had to go through chemotherapy and mastectomy.

ClareBlue · 24/07/2022 10:58

Pooet · 24/07/2022 10:35

The NHS kills thousands of people a year. It is a pathetic pride and yes we did laugh at you banging your saucepans and being totally duped by the government that they are heroes.

You have an extremely skewed view of the world based on an elitist entitlement.
There are plenty of places in the universe you will wait more than 3 days to see a gp
600 million people live on less than 2 dollars a day in India. About 300 million on less than 1 dollar 25 cents. What healthcare do they get?
You are obviously not one of them.
You state you would move to USA for healthcare or Germany.
My daughter lives in Berlin and pays substantial money for healthcare above standard taxes and can not see a doctor on the same day for routine issues and there are a million Syrians who were let in but have been denied legal status which effects their access to healthcare. They are outside the strict German systems of registration.
In the USA a third of people diagnosed with cancer end up bancrupt and loose all their assets. Maternity care is impossible without insurance which rules out about 25 million women a year. People refuse ambulances because of cost. Insurance companies decide care on cost and an out of network doctor used when you are in an accident will save you but bancrupt you because it invalidates your insurance.
In your elite position you are always going to access good healthcare but to say it is pathetic to have pride in a universal healthcare system that is under extreme demands shows a dangerous lack of empaphy, or understanding of those less fortunate than yourself.
But someone who is makes judgements from an elite in a society where 800 million live in abject poverty, maybe has to blank out realities and keep to platitudes.

HarrietPierce · 24/07/2022 10:59

"Either we're great and you enjoy living here. Or you leave for a better life elsewhere!"

Not a very nuanced statement. And the "Off you Pop then " often said to foreigners who have different experiences of healthcare.

Pooet · 24/07/2022 10:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ClareBlue · 24/07/2022 11:09

Thanks for confirming the impression you have given on previous posts.

Mascia · 24/07/2022 11:17

This reply has been deleted

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Well, that sounds pretty condescending.

gnilliwdog · 24/07/2022 12:05

I don't think complaining about the UK is unusual. Thinking back over 30 years or so I have lived with plenty of Australians, South Africans and Polish who thought it was a dump. Mainly they thought it was a good place to make money. I think we just have a very particular culture that many countries dislike. On the other hand, my Asian family and friends are very fond of the place, as are some of the people I have met from other countries. The colonial history complicates things for some of us, but doesn't stop a basic affection for the people and place. I do wonder what it is about the country that annoys people, but I think it must be cultural. I don't think we have the worst facilities in the world, yet.

zoeFromCity · 24/07/2022 12:29

Where I am from, old Eastern bloc, UK and USA were (in the time of closed borders) seen as unreachable ideals and legends.We just considered everything we had as "normal" and expected you have everything plus many other great things on top of it.

The idea that UK is just another country with people and problems was a bit shocking :) And only after absorbing that shock, I was able to see that in some cases it was actually impossible to have both our and your perks in the same time. Either you have freedom to choose where you live or, as we had back in time, doctors well distributed around the country by assigning graduates to a localities the stated wanted them. Or, you live mostly in houses, we have more flats. In the areas with flats there is higher density of population, which results into better public transportation coverage (more people means that bus runs very often and still there are enough passengers)

Old Eastern bloc was relatively caring in terms of public services - paid for by heigher taxes and limited freedom in professions providing those services.

If the frequency and enthusiasm of her comparisons is a bit too much, tell her.

Softplayhooray · 24/07/2022 12:52

Totally normal to want a rant with any houseguest! You are doing a lovely thing by supporting her, OP.

She's right, let's face it, lots of public services are a mess for us at the mo. Her beloved country is being destroyed, she never wanted to leave, and she must be terribly homesick and just desperate to be there again. When public services don't work it probably feels a lot like there's not so much of a safety net at a time she is desperate for it and perhaps they are (were) genuinely far better in Ukraine.

I am sure she is so thankful to you but at the same time (understandably) desperately sad to be living in someone else's home all of a sudden when she was very happy in her own place just a few months ago, and just generally confused and overwhelmed by what the hell has happened to her life.

I think you're helping her express that homesickness and lost feeling in a safe space OP, but nothing is intended to upset you, so if you take her comments as part of that positive process (even though they smart a bit), they might be a lot easier to hear!

girlmom21 · 24/07/2022 12:52

Pooet · 24/07/2022 10:00

For thise of us who do t live in the UK, we do laugh at the pathetic pride of the NHS. I have so many Indian colleagues who are bewildered that they are paying hundreds of thousands in uni fees yet their kid gets tonsillitis and told to 'watch and wait' and often pull them and send them to the US or Germany instead. Nowhere else in the universe do you have to wait 3 days to see a GP or dentist. Lots of Ukrainians have said fuck this and gone home.

Imagine controlling your adults child's life like this and being proud enough to attempt to brag about it?

BellePeppa · 24/07/2022 15:01

Sandra1984 · 24/07/2022 08:48

I'm a migrant too (Spain) and have only gratitude towards the UK, it open my doors to me (I arrived before Brexit) and has been extremely generous by providing me with work, a successful business (I'm self employed) and public health care. Of course things are not perfect here (show me a country were things are perfect. None). Yes, people eat terribly in the the UK, A LOT of processed food, chocolate and all sorts of rubbish sugary treats, but I have the option to buy groceries, avoid the chocolate isle and cook healthy meals at home (which I do). I didn't come to the UK running away from a war so I can understand her stress and frustration but ultimately she should be grateful this country government took her and the kind English people took her inside their home (like the OP).

Don't bite the hand that feeds you, specially when they have saved your life and put you inside their home. I wonder what this Ukranian woman would think if she the situation was vice versa and she had taken the OP into her home only to hear her complaint about the Ukraine.

Great post. Yes there are things wrong with the UK and if I was able I’d move back to Switzerland but that is also not perfect (perfect scenery but not perfect day to day living). I think a lot of people are missing the point here, which is not to keep bashing the UK but to acknowledge that constantly criticising the country that has given you a safe place (and to the host’s face) is just bad manners.

Softplayhooray · 24/07/2022 15:15

@BellePeppa I think it'd be bad manners if she'd just chosen to move here to study for a while or on a work placement. But she's escaping war and that's a whole different context...I'm amazed at how she's holding it all together. Her life has been blown apart. If the situation were reversed I'd resent the hell out of having to move to the Ukraine if England were invaded - it'd feel different and weird and not home and I'd hate it, even if it were the most beautiful place ever. And I'd be able to feel very thankful to the host family and Ukraine at the same time, for helping me. A bit of moaning would be fine by me, perfectly understandable.

CandidaAlbicans2 · 24/07/2022 15:17

I went to Dubai a few weeks ago and I reckon I spent the whole 2 weeks going ‘wow, how much?’ And ‘no free schooling?’ Or ‘you can’t buy alcohol in a supermarket?’ Or ‘wow these people spend all their money on luxuries, they have no idea about the real world’ etc etc. so I don’t think it’s ‘dissing’ or being ungrateful.

@Sellie555were you relying on the hospitality of locals/staying with a local family and teling them this? If not, it's not really comparable to OP's position. If yes, then I don't think that was very diplomatic of you

Sellie555 · 24/07/2022 15:37

CandidaAlbicans2 · 24/07/2022 15:17

I went to Dubai a few weeks ago and I reckon I spent the whole 2 weeks going ‘wow, how much?’ And ‘no free schooling?’ Or ‘you can’t buy alcohol in a supermarket?’ Or ‘wow these people spend all their money on luxuries, they have no idea about the real world’ etc etc. so I don’t think it’s ‘dissing’ or being ungrateful.

@Sellie555were you relying on the hospitality of locals/staying with a local family and teling them this? If not, it's not really comparable to OP's position. If yes, then I don't think that was very diplomatic of you

Eh??? I was saying how every time anyone goes to a different country then they make comparisons to their own country

an I have a Ukrainian family staying with me too so…

ednclouda · 24/07/2022 15:42

Forestgate. - you are so right

SofiaSoFar · 24/07/2022 15:51

Your guest has a vivid imagination, OP, as apparently do quite a few on this thread who are adamant that the NHS is shit.

Ukraine's healthcare provision is way, way below the UK's in every objective study there is. I don't care if they have/had 1 doctor for every 10 people over there, whatever they're doing with them is/was shit by comparison.

UK is generally regarded as top 10 worldwide in most studies.

Ukraine is/was lucky to hit top 80 or 90.

Here's one such set of rankings, for anyone interested:

worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world

Mascia · 24/07/2022 15:53

Softplayhooray · 24/07/2022 15:15

@BellePeppa I think it'd be bad manners if she'd just chosen to move here to study for a while or on a work placement. But she's escaping war and that's a whole different context...I'm amazed at how she's holding it all together. Her life has been blown apart. If the situation were reversed I'd resent the hell out of having to move to the Ukraine if England were invaded - it'd feel different and weird and not home and I'd hate it, even if it were the most beautiful place ever. And I'd be able to feel very thankful to the host family and Ukraine at the same time, for helping me. A bit of moaning would be fine by me, perfectly understandable.

But would you be moaning at your Ukrainian host family of the situation was reversed? And do you think they’d appreciate that?

woodhill · 24/07/2022 16:15

Myself and relative have had different treatments in different hospitals and had excellent treatments and response times

Hardbackwriter · 24/07/2022 16:43

But would you be moaning at your Ukrainian host family of the situation was reversed? And do you think they’d appreciate that?

I think it's quite likely that OP's guest has no idea how often she's doing it - she probably think she's very successfully hiding her feelings! It's really easy to get 'menitionitis' about that kind of thing without realizing.

LavenderHillHome · 24/07/2022 16:46

Long time lurker here but this time I actually have to say something. OP YANBU, in fact I think you are very kind but what is being missed here are the cultural differences.
I came to this country long time ago from a very similar neck of the woods as your lady guest and I can still remember how much I disliked almost everything. Everything bar now my husband.

Few points/ My opinion :
People from Eastern Europe are very patriotic, they are proud of “their own” and for that reason other things/ places will often come short in comparison. It’s also much more natural behaviour for her to voice her negative opinion compared to the polite English way. We sort of call it how it is, whether good or bad. After my first year here my mother came to visit and I literally never invited her back. Everything was bad, the cake too sweet, the coffee too weak, the people too fat ( not so skinny herself)
You may have to sit her down and let her know that her comments are actually quite hurtful, I do hope she will understand.

Health care: I admire those hardworking people, always so nice to me anytime I had to have anything done. BUT, I can understand why she is in such a shock. The system is completely different in E Europe, I stopped talking about it with my friends as I was actually embarrassed about how bad it sounded compared to what they have and their judgmental faces were annoying me. Same for dentist.

The bureaucracy, the postal service, the pavement: unfounded. That will be a case of homesickness and anger over what’s happened to her home, country, life.

I very much hope, that once the world finds itself at peace again, your lady guest will extend an invitation to you to come and stay over at hers.
You may find that in fact she was absolutely right about everything being better or you can have some fun and give her a taste of her own medicine.

Kidsaretryingtodestroyme · 24/07/2022 17:13

Despite the antibiotics bit, she’s not wrong. Despite the ‘world beating’ talk and the constant government attempts at gaslighting, our services are in the gutter. Our healthcare, schools, policing etc do not reflect such a rich country, it’s a disgrace.

However, she’s very rude to voice it aloud. She’s also lucky she’s not s Syrian refugee living in a refugee ‘hotel’. She’s being treated as an ‘a-list’ refugee with better access to things than some U.K. born people and needs to be told this.

quiteathome · 24/07/2022 17:22

I think it is completely normal to be on both sides. It must be really difficult to leave your country due to war. And at the moment she will be looking back with rose tinted glasses at everything that was good or better than the UK.

It is also very easy to be intensely annoyed by the people you live with, or by guests. Thinking about an impending visit by the in-laws.

A lot of what she is saying is correct, due to covid/Brexit/ government mismanagement aging population our health services are in trouble.

I have attempted to get a GP appointment recently. They said I have been recommended for an out of hours phone appointment. However there aren't any available at the moment.

The UK isn't perfect, and we need to make improvements. We are definitely not the worst.

You have done an amazing thing, and it is OK to rant and be annoyed.

SofiaSoFar · 24/07/2022 17:38

Kidsaretryingtodestroyme · 24/07/2022 17:13

Despite the antibiotics bit, she’s not wrong. Despite the ‘world beating’ talk and the constant government attempts at gaslighting, our services are in the gutter. Our healthcare, schools, policing etc do not reflect such a rich country, it’s a disgrace.

However, she’s very rude to voice it aloud. She’s also lucky she’s not s Syrian refugee living in a refugee ‘hotel’. She’s being treated as an ‘a-list’ refugee with better access to things than some U.K. born people and needs to be told this.

Have you actually looked into how UK services compare to other countries by objective measures, or just decided that what you think is fact?

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