Would men just put their kids into care?

[MustdrinkmoreH2O]

Would be interested to know peoples thoughts on this.

since having my baby and going to a lot of baby groups and mixing with other mothers and reading these forums In can safely say a high proportion of men (not all of course), see child rearing as women primary responsibility.

Women tend to be the default parent in the events of splits and men having EOW or even just walking away completely.

So I was thinking, if women suddenly acted like men in this regard and literally left men holding the baby, what would honestly happen to a lot of children?

If women suddenly stopped carrying the mental load so didn’t book in any kind of medical appointment or arrange play dates or buy new clothes, what would honestly happen?

One of my friends is dating a single dad (mum walked out), but his parents practically raised the kids as he worked away. So still pretty much saw them only at weekends. However if a man leaves a woman with a baby, in normal circumstances she’d just find a new job where she didn’t work away, reduce hours of needed and use paid childcare. They wouldn’t normally hand their kids over to others to raise 80% of the time because they had to work.

So I’m really interested to see what a lot of men would do if the roles were reversed. If women literally just walked out or stopped carrying any mental load type stuff relating to the kids. Would men leave their jobs if required or go part time and claim universal credit?

Would the majority step up as women do and stop their hobbies, arrange childcare and extracurricular activities and basically fully give themselves to parenthood? Would they realise their kids need new vests, socks and tshirts or need a dental check up?

Or

Would they hand over their kids to grandparents/family members to be primarily raised or if failing that, put them into care? Would they do the bare minimum so kids are literally fed, watered and taken to school but other than that left to their own devices with no activities or medical appointments arranged or assemblies attended or well fitted clothes worn and basically be kind of neglected?

Be interested to know others thoughts on what would actually happen.

YABU - as many men as women would step up and look after their kids the same way single mothers do.

YANBU - unfortunately most men would try and shirk as much responsibility of child rearing sometimes even resulting in the care system if their were no willing people to become primary cater.

That's just your social circle.

Mine includes lots of older fathers who are in their late 40s/early 50s who took shared parental leave or did their holidays flexibly. They learnt a lot about parenting in those months and as they have good relationships with their children this has continued into the school years.

I also went to school with children's whose primary carer was their dad for a variety of reasons. Or whose parents both did shift work and the way the shifts fell both parents had to step up.

I dunno. I think lots of men don't walk out on their families (including those who go through a divorce but continue to take the role of active dad). They're not as obvious as they're generally just getting on with things, but I think those dads would parent fully if they had to be the lone parent. I know that if I died my husband would take full responsibility for the kids, although I don't think he'd manage the juggle as well as I do, but that's more due to a disability he has than lack of willingness.

Generally speaking, women take time off first. They have after all birthed a baby. I think that sets up unequal parenting arrangements that seem hard to break. It wasn’t until DH took a 12 month career break to look after the kids that he really got it! He was pretty involved before then but I carried the thought load. When I handed the thought load over he almost buckled. Now we are both working again and it’s much more equal… but it took the career break to do it.

My late DH was left holding the baby (and a primary aged child) when his ex walked out. He arranged his shifts around childcare and was a solo parent until he met me - so 10 years of raising them alone. He had some help from his parents but no more than we had as a couple with DS. It's less common but it happens.

DH would do an absolutely cracking job of parenting if for whatever reason I wasn’t around.
He currently gets DD up, gives her breakfast, reads to her.c gets her ready for the day including hair, takes her to nursery then does bath time after work and alternates bedtime depends on workloads.
He makes medical appointments where necessary, brings DD to appointments.
I don’t run his life/book his dentist appointments/ make his lunch/ iron his clothes etc.

This isn’t a fluke, I picked an equal and capable partner to have children with.

My dad "stepped up" back in the 60s, everyone's advice to him was to divorce his wife (she was mentally unwell and nowhere near stable enough to be around us kids), put the kids in care and start again. He ignored the advice. There were times when he had to use the care system for us but he held things together, continued to work full time, visited mother daily and remained married to her until his death 5 years ago.

Seeing as gay men are actively becoming parents and bringing up children it would seem men as a group are capable, competent fathers

I do see a proportion of posts on here around men who are completely useless fathers. But its one sided, people post complaints more than compliments.

So some fathers would dump their children on other people etc, as some mothers do, and I think potentially a slightly higher proportion of fathers would.

But realistically speaking most men would not.

Besides which - in terms of the 'dumping' children on grandparents and paid care, what is the difference between a mother returning to paid employment using grandparents, nannies or nurseries for childcare, and a single father doing the same?

I'm pleased to say that my experience- both personal and within social work- is entirely in contrast to that!

I will also say before my parents devorced my father was a SAHF and he did it purely to avoid going to work, he would lock me in a room and forget to feed me or change me (couldnt go to the toilet) so he could drink and do drugs with his friends.

It all came to a head when he left me home alone to go to the pub and a horrible accident happened that was life changing and nearly fatal, my mam devorced him immediately and quit work to become a full time cutodian.

I have no doubt there are some good STAF out there (just as theres some shit SAHM out there) but sometimes some men (and women) would happily keep the kids not to parent them but just for the free ride (while the kids are neglected).

It’s heart-warming to hear all the instances of dads stepping up. But, with respect, people must know that each anecdote, even when all added together, doesn’t negate the actual, endemic reality that women are overwhelmingly left holding the baby and that men are praised to the skies for doing basic stuff women do every day.

In extremis, most men would step up. Until that point, most, to varying degrees, do less than their partners. So, if OP’s question was about the issue of how unbalanced childcare is, I think people are wasting their time trying to deny this.

This is why I think properly paid shared parental leave would help a lot. Starting with 90% of earnings for 6 weeks.

All the dads I know who took some form of leave, even if it was only with their first child, put a lot more effort into parenting.

I think more men than women would do that, yes.

My mother died unexpectedly when I was a child, my dad raised us on his own. Our grandparents lived an hour away. He had help from neighbours and everyone chipped in to help after school but he went back to work quite quickly and continued to work full time. We did lots of extra curricular activites and other than obvious trauma had a very good childhood. We remain very close as a family now. And I'd like to think if the worst ever happened to me my husband would cope as my dad did.

Wow I know a few single dads and they all bring up there kids i know of more women that don't look after kids properly then men,

The difference is that most single mothers try to arrange work so that they can see as much of the children as possible. They use childcare when necessary. This includes going part-time. Statistically, very few single mothers of young children work full-time. My SIL did continue to work full-time and moved to night shift work so her children could sleep at her mum, but she could spend most of the house outside the school with them.
Very different from continuing to work as you have always done and expecting other relatives to fill the gaps.

'even if apparently great father's before just seem to detach from the kids - they often great Step fathers to new women kids'

I have seen this many times before... man leaves biological children but steps right into playing perfect full time daddy to a non-bio kids while ignoring his own even exist anymore.

Its always fascenated me.

This is what happens. Everyone else picks up the slack.
I know a mother with three children whose husband died last year. People expect her to look after her children and to use childcare. Neighbours and others do not all chip in to help look after the children.
There are very different expectations of fathers and mothers. Fathers are not expected to do it alone and rarely do.

I think it depends on the stability of the family unit to start with. I could foresee some NRPs who don't play a significant role in their DC's lives refusing to step up if something happens to the other parent but I do find it difficult to credit that a father living with his children or sharing care with the mother in a significant way would allow them to go into care (although I can see that he might try to exploit/rely on family or other help if not used to being primary parent as unused to orientating his life around the children).

One thing which is instructive is to look at what happens to children when a parent is sent to prison. When the father is incarcerated, most children remain living with their mother. When the mother is imprisoned, most children are either cared for by a family member or go into care. But many of these families will already have had issues around poverty, mental health, the father leaving etc. so maybe not the best general guide to whether men as a group would step up.

I know a single 'male' parent who became that single parent when his wife died and the children were still quite young. He wanted nothing to do with being a full time parent, which wasn't a surprise as his wife had done ALL the heavy lifting when it came to the children before she died. So his wife's family have been raising the children and he sees them occasionally.

I know of 3 single dads at the school I work in and there is one in DS's class. Of course most wouldn't want their children to go into care.

antelopevalley is spot on from my experience. People step up to help men who have been left holding the children; women are just expected to get on with it. Society continues to reward men when it comes to shirking their parental responsibilities even when both parents are still involved, so it's not a surprise.

Thank you OddSockQueen for that post, I agree.

Statistically the vast majority of single parents are women.
Statistically the vast majority of SAHPs are women.
Statistically the vast majority of part-time employees are women.
Statistically older women are more likely to be left living in poverty than men.

Statistically men have not stepped up. They've probably worked out there are huge downsides of doing so.

We do women no favours by pretending thats because women just love changing nappies and not having financial independence.
If men really wanted to be doing the lion's share of the childcare, it would be happening already.

Would the majority step up as women do and stop their hobbies, arrange childcare and extracurricular activities and basically fully give themselves to parenthood? Would they realise their kids need new vests, socks and tshirts or need a dental check up?

I did and have done exactly this. It's come at a great sacrifice to my own personal ambitions. My business hrs fit in around the children no childcare. I receive no monies from the state.
It is what it is.

It’s hard to say, society sees most things child related to be the mother’s work, one of my Son’s school friends mother’s contacts me for arrangements when my son is with is father, I tell her to speak to his father … every single time 🙈

It is a bit of a generalisation, I do think though that certainly more men would do this than women but a lot of men would also step and look after their children. I have 3 brothers and a husband who are all fathers and all very hands on, if any of them suddenly became the sole parent I'm 100% certain they wouldn't expect someone else to rear them, I know this because they already do their fair share and more in some cases. My own dad would certainly have palmed us off to anyone he could though