to ask if most people openly share salaries with friends (and families?) in the UK?

[polka6]

I know it often comes up on MN how much people earn etc, are people in the UK anywhere near as open in real life? what about with close friends - do you share when you have a promotion etc? Is it more standard to do that with family?

Personally, I more or less share the details with parents and friends in the same line of work (who earn similar or previous have done or will do in the future) but not so much with friends not in the same career circles and probably downplay it whereas the general consensus on MN seems to be people inflate the figures?

Not with friends or family, I expect they could hazard a guess based on what I do (but would probably be wrong).

I had to tell a couple of close family members when they supported me through a break up, and soon remembered why I kept this information to myself previously; they immediately asked for a loan on 2 occasions which I provided, however when I asked for the second amount to be returned, I had to drag it out from them, and very nearly didn't get back!

People like to spend your money when they realise just how much you earn, which is why I generally keep it to myself.

I always share my salary on threads where asked on MN, as I think it's important for women to hear about women earning high salaries. It's possible.

Oh except a friend who just qualified for the same job role. I told her so she ensure she asks for what she deserves. There's a wide range however some companies will try to low ball it so she knows the salary I started on and aimed for the same. I've also been job hunting and discussed the roles with her including pay. I wouldn't discuss it with my colleagues though as we are prohibited from talking about it and even though it only benefits the employers for us to not discuss it, I know my colleagues (who I am not close with) will get me into trouble for it- 'but Tokyo said she's on THIS much'. I know I earn more than them though, but I have more experience.

Told a good friend once and he looked really perturbed. So I've never done it since. No real idea what any of my friends earn. Family I can guess.

I am Asian by ethnicity so understand a little about workplace racism. Fundamentally I believe that hard work should be rewarded and if you work harder than someone else then you should get more in the same role. In financial services where I work this is very common practice. Work/life balance is important to me and I do not work silly hours. That being said, like most people at my grade and in my industry I work way more than is contracted. I am rewarded for this. I have experienced some quite appalling racism in my time and there will always be people who think a process unfair. However, on the whole I would rather be working somewhere where opportunities to progress and earn more exist, rather than everyone receiving the same regardless of the results achieved.

Bonuses aren't usually related to 'experience', only performance. You're both at cross purposes.
I think that base pay should be similar for similar job roles, with performance bonuses. However this really depends on the nature of the job!
Results driven like sales - easy to quantify.
More vague like software development, project manager...how would they know?
What's the metric for 'good performance'..?

Fundamentally I believe that hard work should be rewarded and if you work harder than someone else then you should get more in the same role

Most performance related programmes I've been involved in have ostensibly been outcomes based not hours based. Honestly I think you are naive if you don't think decision making in these processes is immune from bias.

I'd be happy for all salaries to be published including bonuses and extras. As a practice lead across different European countries I am quite happy where it is published and would have no problem with this being the norm in the UK. I should be able to justify mine and my teams' decisions to all the group.

Whilst there will always be the odd whinger and the odd hard case where there was little to choose between two for a single bonus, most people will be happier to see that the overall process is fair. Its also good for sponsors of promotions and bonuses to have to think "how would I justify this recommendation".

If you really work in a team where this would cause problems then you need to look closely at your processes and the people you are recruiting.

Honestly I think you are naive if you don't think decision making in these processes is immune from bias.

Sorry - should of course be "if you think decision making" not "if you don't think decision making"

I would never discuss salaries with friends or family.

I'm not sure why it would ever be relevant or necessary information for anyone else and can't imagine how any good would come of it.

I do have a rough idea of what some friends might earn because of their jobs, as they might with mine, and their homes/cars, etc.

I suppose the closest I've ever come to talking about my salary with anyone would be when talking to my niece about her career choice (she asked for advice) but certainly didn't go beyond rough figures that might be possible for her later on.

It works both ways though.
People always focus on bias, and people not 'getting what they deserve'.
However with all this diversity and inclusion it sometimes goes the other way!
Some companies are hiring women from bootcamps with no formal qualifications. They're training them up, but paying them the same salary as someone with a full computer science degree.

I myself many moons ago had no relevant degree but got given a chance. It took me hours of work but I then proved I was able to hold my own. Even though 'on paper' I'm less qualified. To this day I perform better with people who have lots of qualifications and are theoretical experts, but zero practical skills. I wouldn't be happy to be paid less because some rule said a Master's degree is worth X.

Equally I've seen people make up reasons to not promote someone, saying they had no 'leadership experience' (even though they had led a team before, just not at our org), 'lack of technical capability in thing A' (even though they were a recognized expert and had given talks on thing B, which was just a different flavor of thing A). All white men. But their 'justifications' were not incorrect, on paper. They were just excuses.

Salary transparency for all is good. I agree it should be published. But there won't be the 'odd few' whingers, there'll be a lot of people who have an overinflated sense of what they're worth. ESEPCIALLY in a field like mine where no two people have the same skills, qualifications are worth everything (or nothing) depending on the specific field. It would take a full-time team of 20 people to justify the 'accurate' salary as people become more and more senior, and specialize.

DH and the DC (older teenagers) know. I want the DC to know so they think about what sort of jobs they might want to go for. I have told female colleagues when I thought they were not being treated fairly - I had battled hard to get my pay up to the same level as male colleagues in the past.

I've never mentioned to my family other than my DDad when he was alive because I earn multiples of what my family earn (I earn over 3x more than the next highest paid person - most of them are basic rate tax payers I pay additional rate). There is no good way to mention it that wouldn't make me sound like a grandstanding twat nor any reason to. I tend to quietly pick up the bill at family events and follow others lead on what we spend on birthdays and Christmas.

Interesting. So very mixed responses. I do share it with DH (similar line of work), DPs as its nice to celebrate new milestones with my parents. Sibling(s) - tricky one, did in the early days when we were applying for jobs and first employed. Trickier now post marriage. Friends - yes to those in similar lines of work. Not really to others. I do think people on the outside looking in/ public perception is that I earn more.

A lot of people here state "I share with my DH/DP" - are there people who won't even share their salary to their significant other? Mindboggling.

I agree @Moonpies. DH and I are very open with each other about money. We have a joint bank account, so it is easy for either of us to see what is coming in and going out.

It is really not a huge problem in geographies where it is the norm (and I watched it become the norm in one of them).

We also hire career changers from bootcamp - why would we pay people with other work experience less than a 21yr old just because they have a comp sci degree? Both are beginners with a great deal to learn but also with assets to bring. How they progress from there is up to them.

We also have to compare wide ranging skill sets from the people competing for promotional slots. No two people are exactly the same. The process is open, everyone is involved and people can challenge results they consider unfair or simply wrong. The numbers going through promotions or attracting expertise rises show no lack of diversity.
It doesn't take a team of 20 people to justify it. Ultimately we know that people can vote with their feet if they think its unfair - geographies which share salary info show no less issues over salary than geographies where its not public.

All of the complexities you describe apply to us, none are real issues, although all are routinely trotted out by people resistant to expanding publication of salaries.

"geographies which share salary info show no less issues over salary than geographies where its not public"

Should be "show no more" - must learn to prof read

No because it can cause jealously and judgement

Although I do agree if people we’re more open companies would get away with less !!