Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

"School is just not a good fit for all children"

171 replies

Postcovid · 20/07/2022 17:14

Do you agree? My DS is finishing Year One, and although he is bright, has a good work ethic and concentrates well on his set tasks, he just resists a lot of the conforming needed and when asked to do simple things like put his coat on before going out to play, or especially when moving on from playing to a work task (his class use a carousel format, so of course some tasks/games are more fun than others). His teacher has to count down/threaten to remove gold stars, and he always eventually makes the right choice but rarely the first time.

At home he is always asking "why" when asked to do something or not to do something. When given an explanation, he usually complies. However when he asks "why" in school, of course his teacher doesn't have the capacity to answer every time. I've spoken to him about this sort of thing at length, explained it's the teacher's rules in the teacher's classroom, that he must do as she asks etc. He tells me sometimes it's when something will be boring, he says he doesn't want to.

FWIW yes we have considered neurodiversity and he has recently been referred for assessments, but we will be waiting years. And also yes, I fully understand it makes the teacher's job tricky when she has 29 other children to teach. But on the flip side, I understand not wanting to conform all the time, and not to do things without trying to find out the reason. I'm hoping it'll stand him in good stead in terms of not succumbing to peer pressure when he's older. But I feel that more and more, schools expect 30 children to act like robots and conform to everything on demand.

OP posts:
UndertheCedartree · 20/07/2022 20:58

Rayn22 · 20/07/2022 17:21

Sorry I meant we will accommodate all children. Not we can't!

That's not really possible though. My DS wouldn't have been able to cope with a big noisy class of 30. You can't really do anything about that.

greywinds · 20/07/2022 21:12

Well you can find a school with smaller class sizes - they do exist, state education varies so much from place to place.

UndertheCedartree · 20/07/2022 21:12

eatingapie · 20/07/2022 18:27

Interestingly I was always good at school and it was very easy for me but I still thought it was fucking stupid half the time. Why do schools need blazers? No one will ever convince me that makes any sense. Why can’t I wear a coloured headband? Is it really ‘distracting’? I was lucky in that I saw it through the lens of ‘how can I make this work for me’ aka get my GCSEs and leave but not all kids will be able to adopt that approach.

Me too. I had no respect for any of the teachers as all the rules were so stupid.

Bootothegoose · 20/07/2022 21:17

I would argue school is a terrible fit for most children. Far too high class numbers, results driven, low accommodations for any diversities etc

the entire education system needs a massive overhaul.

Postcovid · 20/07/2022 21:20

@UndertheCedartree I don’t remember much about my feelings towards school generally in primary but in secondary I definitely got a bit cynical / very low level rebellious. I would always wear trainers unless told specifically I had to wear shoes, and I definitely developed a bit of an attitude towards teachers as a teenager, I would chat a lot in class without caring about being told off. I did well enough in my exams but was quite lazy and lucky that I was bright enough to get by. I saw the bigger picture though and knew I needed to get C’s and above in my GCSE’s, and 3 x B’s to get into my choice of uni, so I definitely did the work I needed to do - I wouldn’t have risked failing.

OP posts:
RamblingEclectic · 20/07/2022 21:23

All types of education have their pros and cons and responsibilities. I try to balance out the cons, though largely now it's discussing the cons and filling in the gaps, but nothing is going to make any type of education perfect.

AngelinaFibres · 20/07/2022 21:46

Plumbear2 · 20/07/2022 17:25

If you want him to remain in school and not home educate him you will have to help him to confirm to the class rules. They all have to understand that when they have to change tasks he has to do it. In year 2 it will expected more otherwise you will be called in for discussions of how your child is disrupting the class. In older years it effects other children's learning. It's not just about your kid.

This.
Or send him to a Steiner school, I you can afford it.

Feefio · 20/07/2022 22:06

@Postcovid Your son sounds similar to me. I have always questioned why and not conformed, I did okay at primary school but the issues really started at secondary. I bunked off a lot and butted heads with a lot of teachers. I found a lot of school pointless and ridiculous. Despite this, I achieved straight A's and A*'s across the board, because of my ability to teach myself the curriculum.

I'm also in a job where I don't need to conform - I am self-employed and doing very well for myself! Some of us don't want a boss or conformity to the workplace or to fit in with everyone else. That is perfectly okay.

Postcovid · 20/07/2022 22:11

Interesting @Feefio! it’s funny because on paper I can completely see why he would only be interested in doing what he wants to. Who wouldn’t feel that way, logically? I don’t find any of the references to work realistic as the working world isn’t like that, you’re getting paid so most people accept the bad with the good.

Out of interest have you ever wondered if you might be on the spectrum or any other neurodiversity?

OP posts:
UndertheCedartree · 20/07/2022 22:16

Petulathethird · 20/07/2022 20:31

He would get very short shrift from me if he asked why he had to do an activity when another group were doing something else.
I would strongly object to being asked to explain myself to a six year old. .

Sitting cross legged on a mat shouldn't be uncomfortable at six years old. I would find it uncomfortable impossible but then I'm a pensioner.

The teacher wants the class on the mat so that she can be sure they are all near enough to hear her properly.

Honestly you sound like that parent.

Blimey, I hope you're not a teacher. DC with ASD are often hypermobile and have problems with core strength - this can mean it is difficult for them to sit cross legged and to sit still. They can also have problems with transitions. Your kind of attitude is why so many ASD DC are home educated.

SheeplessAndCounting · 20/07/2022 22:18

2reefsin30knots · 20/07/2022 17:21

Being able to conform with a large group fairly unquestioningly is the core requirement for mass education to work. It is very difficult for some children. Some schools cope better than others with children who struggle to go with the flow.

It's also a core requirement of brainwashing. Hence many of the most inspiring and intelligent people who've contributed the most to society didn't just follow arbitrary rules with no explanation.

Schools can't on the one hand profess to be encouraging critical thinking and encourage children to be individual and not give in to peer pressure etc, and simultaneously set arbitrary rules and expect children to behave like clones. Intelligent children spot this cognitive dissonance and mile off and challenge it. Not remotely surprising.

SheeplessAndCounting · 20/07/2022 22:19

MrsFionaCharming · 20/07/2022 17:25

I don’t see how school can possibly suit all children. Think about the workplace, some people would be miserable working in an office, whilst some thrive on it. Why do we expect children to all cope in the same environment with no say in the matter?

Adults choose their profession/ workplace. Children do not choose their schools.

Lolliepoppie · 20/07/2022 22:27

At home he is always asking "why" when asked to do something or not to do something. When given an explanation, he usually complies.

Herein may lie your problem: he is allowed to debate and chose whether to comply at home. This behaviour is following through at school.

SheeplessAndCounting · 20/07/2022 22:28

MermaidSwimmer · 20/07/2022 18:00

The PDA society has some good resources for parenting a child like this which may help.

Agree with this too. So many awful posts here slating a child for being stubborn etc with very little thought of the many reasons he might be behaving this way.

SheeplessAndCounting · 20/07/2022 22:32

"Precious little dumpling" etc. 🙄🙄🙄 Treating a child as a human worthy of respect and trying to understand the reasons for their behaviour and help them adapt to situations as much as they can - as adults should - it surely pretty basic. Figuring out how to talk to that specific child to help them understand, as he may well have communication differences. A lot can be about how he is asked to do something, rather than it being a "command".

There's much ignorance here of conditions like PDA. Even from people who say they work in schools, which is worrying.

Postcovid · 20/07/2022 22:33

@Petulathethird by “that parent” you mean one who is working with school to help them get the best out of my DS, and he out of his time there?

@SheeplessAndCounting very interesting point about the contradictory encouraging critical thinking/but not really; discourage peer pressure/but really rely on peer pressure to do their crowd control for them. It doesn’t add up.

@Lolliepoppie I don’t always give him an explanation, when he moans about it being bath time/bed time, it’s tough. However when he was asking why he wasn’t allowed to play on his younger cousin’s new bike, when his younger sister was allowed to, I explained that the bike was too small for a child his age/size, and that he could break the bike and it would make his cousin sad. Given that explanation, he understood I wasn’t just being mean/spoiling his fun when I said he couldn’t play on it.

OP posts:
SheeplessAndCounting · 20/07/2022 22:35

Lolliepoppie · 20/07/2022 22:27

At home he is always asking "why" when asked to do something or not to do something. When given an explanation, he usually complies.

Herein may lie your problem: he is allowed to debate and chose whether to comply at home. This behaviour is following through at school.

Many neurodivergent children aren't "choosing not to comply". They are not being provided with the right supports and adjustments and being spoken to in appropriate phrasing from adults to make that possible for them.

OP I know you have no diagnosis but the PDA strategies are well worth looking into even if it's not his diagnosis as the way the adults behave in these situations has a huge impact on the outcome. Teachers just phrasing what they are asking for differently can have a massive impact. If they are willing to work with you on this and do it, that can be an uphill battle, to put it politely.

UndertheCedartree · 20/07/2022 22:36

greywinds · 20/07/2022 21:12

Well you can find a school with smaller class sizes - they do exist, state education varies so much from place to place.

But that would mean moving out of our city which isn't possible for us and I imagine many others.

UndertheCedartree · 20/07/2022 22:40

Postcovid · 20/07/2022 21:20

@UndertheCedartree I don’t remember much about my feelings towards school generally in primary but in secondary I definitely got a bit cynical / very low level rebellious. I would always wear trainers unless told specifically I had to wear shoes, and I definitely developed a bit of an attitude towards teachers as a teenager, I would chat a lot in class without caring about being told off. I did well enough in my exams but was quite lazy and lucky that I was bright enough to get by. I saw the bigger picture though and knew I needed to get C’s and above in my GCSE’s, and 3 x B’s to get into my choice of uni, so I definitely did the work I needed to do - I wouldn’t have risked failing.

That sounds very much like me. I'm autistic by the way. Maybe you are too?

Feefio · 20/07/2022 22:41

@Postcovid I have often wondered. I know there were some rumblings from people about me possibly having ADHD as a child, but this was never investigated. My DS has ASD and suspected ADHD so it's perfectly possible. He is very much like me; he is very academically intelligent, but lacks some common sense and social skills. He does, however, conform a lot more than I did. Should there come a time where school is an issue, I will have no hesitation in pulling him out and home schooling.

I've basically made my own life, designed it around my strengths and interests. I told my parents from a very young age that I had no interest in having a boss and I was going to make my own business... that's exactly what I have done. I love my life as it's exactly what I've moulded it to be!

Sloebluewalls · 20/07/2022 22:42

UK. state education is not fit for purpose. It should be so much more engaging, creative, experimental, physical, making better use of nature.

lollipoprainbow · 20/07/2022 22:44

I agree the curriculum should be brought right up to date, it's too stuck in the 50's. Why are we teaching algebra etc which will never be used in real life in fact any maths other then the basics is pointless when we can use a calculator or google it.

SheeplessAndCounting · 20/07/2022 22:49

lollipoprainbow · 20/07/2022 22:44

I agree the curriculum should be brought right up to date, it's too stuck in the 50's. Why are we teaching algebra etc which will never be used in real life in fact any maths other then the basics is pointless when we can use a calculator or google it.

Errr that's a stretch! Algebra is useful for loads of things in everyday life. You also only have to read a few recent threads on here about pensions or mortgages or the economy to see how better mathematical literacy is necessary.

And as an aside I had to do a trig exercise last year to set up a shelter in my garden: if I'd got the calculation wrong by more than 5cm the posts would have been concreted into the ground in the wrong place. These types of maths skills are basic knowledge to be able to deal with many situations and also essential for many careers.

SheeplessAndCounting · 20/07/2022 22:51

The proportion of people with no functioning knowledge of basic economics or even compound interest is astonishing and of course this will massively impact their ability to make good life choices.

SheeplessAndCounting · 20/07/2022 22:51

Sorry OP - off topic.

Swipe left for the next trending thread