Friends child hurting my baby

[CbaThinkingOfAUsername]

We are currently on holiday in a lodge. There are 4 adults and 7 kids. One of my friends, let's call her Sarah, has two boys, 7 and 3. I have a 3 month old baby.

My friends child, the 3 year old, is, in my opinion, out of control. He has constant tantrums, if you ask him to do anything, he screams and shouts. He wanted to come to the shops with me yesterday, I had no car seat for him to come so I said to him 'I'm sorry sweetheart but I don't have a car seat for you but I'll bring you back a treat'. Well, he started pulling on and swinging on my car door handle, kicking the car, screaming the place down. I genuinely thought he was going going pull the handle off and do damage. Another time my baby was in his bouncy chair and he began grabbing it and violently bouncing it up and down. His mum told him to stop but he just defiantly looked her in the eye, maintaining eye contact while bouncing it even harder. I had to run over to physically intervene.

Anyway these are just a few examples of his behaviour to give background to his behaviour in general. The situation broke down last night. Her 3 year old boy keeps throwing things at my baby. I don't know if it's jealousy or whatever but he'll pick up hairbrushes, remote controls, just anything and lob them at him. His mum weakly says 'no, don't do that' but he continues. Over and over. I'll be holding my baby and have to turn my back to protect him yet the avalanch of things being chucked at us continues. It isn't just on holiday this has happened. Well the throwing things hasn't happened before but he has threatened to kick my baby and always does sly little things like pretending to put a blanket on him to keep him warm and actually slamming it down on him, hurting him, lying on the settee beside us 'accidentally' moving his legs but actually kicking my baby....etc.

Yesterday it came to a head. I have had to continuously say to the kid, come on 'Paul' (not his real name), come on, stop that, you're going to hurt baby, you can't do that etc etc...but he doesn't care about getting in trouble. Anyway, yesterday, his mum, 'Sarah', confronted me, saying "you're always nipping at him, he's just doing it because he is hot/bored/wanting attention etc". I said yes, that's all very well, but the fact still remains that whatever the reason is behind his behaviour, he is deliberately hurting my baby and he knows what he is doing. She got extremely defensive and it came to a bit of a head. We are OK now but I'm currently packing to go home today (we aren't meant to leave till Sunday) just so that I can protect my baby from this.

I realise that kids do behave badly at times , I realise it's normal but I don't know what level is normal? Is this normal behaviour? I don't have a 3 year old myself so I don't know. Am I being unreasonable by nipping at him to stop? Am I bring unreasonable to expect him to not act like this? As I say, his mum does say 'no, don't do that' but that does absolutely nothing to control or curb his behaviour.

This is not normal behaviour. It’s absolutely unacceptable and the parent is the issue not the child as they are allowing it. I have 3 kids one with autism and adhd none of them have ever or would be allowed to throw things at a baby. Nor have any of them ever behaved in this manner. Kids will generally behave the way a parent allows them too.

Are some 3 year olds difficult- 100% that’s when people have to parent- your friend is appalling. I would never let my child damage someone’s property or hurt another child, irrespective of age!

I did not go on a rant. I asked her to clarify it and explained why because it is a very, very important distinction. She did, i thanked her, we moved on.

I suggest you do the same!

So the other 2 are OK with you going home because she cba to parent?

Fuck the lot of them!

It's appalling that you have had to parent this child, OP and tell him off while she weakly stands by and tells you off for hurting your baby! That is honestly awful. I can't imagine the friendship continuing. I'd love to know what the other mums are saying.

Tantrums are one thing. All toddlers have tantrums and it’s the parents role to intervene to stop the child coming to any harm when they throw themself on the floor, bang toys around etc…
Throwing objects at you when you’re holding your baby is something else and his parent should know that is unacceptable in any child.
Again the sly digs at the baby is within normal range for a 3 year old, usually jealousy. But it’s not normal for a parent to ignore that, or pass it off as nothing. His parent is really lacking.
Sad you have to cut your holiday short but a lot safer.

He sounds wildly jealous of your baby she needs to intervene and stop him. Why is she letting him obsess over you and the baby?

going home seems the most sensible thing if she isn’t going to keep him in line.

how very sad for you all.

how have the others reacted to you going?

The problem is with the mother. I wouldn't be seeing her again unless she learns to control her child.

Heed the warning given to mums taking new babies home: "The greatest danger to your baby is your toddler."

I think you are doing the right thing to leave. The 3 year old won't learn that throwing things is wrong unless he is taught that by his parent and it doesn't sound like she is willing to do that or to allow other adults to do it.

My dc is now much older but at the 3 year old stage I found it was necessary to get eye to eye and speak in a firm tone about what was and was not acceptable -and distract with something else - as others have said done in the right way little ones get the message pretty quickly.

I suspect this friendship is now over - which is a shame for you, the other parent and the 3 year old as this is likely to become a pattern.

YANBU! Some 3 year olds (and older!) can be little buggers but that's where the parent needs to step in. A firm "No" whilst scooping them up and removing them from the situation, no matter how much they howl.

His mum wasn't parenting him so you had to, for the safety of your baby - then she had the cheek to complain about it.

For me it’s not the child that’s the issue, it’s the fact that the parent isn’t doing anything. 3 year olds don’t have impulse control, they are unpredictable. I was lucky with mine, they weren’t likely to hurt others, I had friends children who were a little more physical. We are still friends because they supervised their children and intervened when necessary. I would never blame the child, I understand all children are different. Does she really expect you to say nothing if she doesn’t stop her child hurting your baby?

I couldn’t remain friends with her after this TBH, she’s no kind of a friend, and her kids will grow up to be entitled twats as well.

The 3 yr old child sounds an unpleasant liability in his current state.
Why isn’t the mother nipping this bad behaviour in the bud?
The child doesn’t sound remotely pleasant to be around.
Is he getting enough food? Attention ?
he can probably feel the “ Love” you have for your baby and is resentful.
Glad you are escaping from this unruly child and his ineffectual mother.

hopefully your friend gets a wake up call from this. I’m definitely not a disciplinarian (I try not to make rules because I’ll have to enforce then so have as few as possible). This kind of behaviour would absolutely 100% resulted in DD being picked up and removed. The red line has to be danger to self or others. Happily she’s never shown any aggression towards other children (accidentally bowled over a few of her peers but never on purpose).

It really as simple as pick them up and move them sometimes. Kicking and screaming if need be.

Agree with others OP - you are right to leave. You can’t protect your baby from throwing if the parent isn’t dealing with it.

I had this issue many years ago with my close friends 3 year old hitting my baby regularly - she just said in a quiet voice “gently please”. Then one day he lifted a heavy candle and lobbed it straight at the baby’s head from a distance of about four paces. My friend was holding my baby and somehow got her arm up in time to deflect the blow. We were both shaken up by it as it was so close to being a serous injury

A few weeks later he did it again in his own home with a heavy toy - this time she stepped up raised her voice and said loudly “No! No throwing” and tried to put him on time out. Just as her DH rushed in shouting at her “how dare you speak to our child like that?”. So the root of the problem was clear. I left and avoided their home for a very long time afterwards as it wasn’t safe for my child. I did comment to her later about him overruling her (entirely necessary and appropriate) discipline like that. But I got the impression she couldn’t make her case to him and that there may have been bigger issues there

I still regret and miss the time my friend and I didn’t have together raising our young kids but I had to put my own childrens safety first. Accidents happen but when a parent is refusing to discipline dangerous behaviour these incidents become too likely to happen and sadly you have to step away - at least until the children are older and hopefully things settle down

Your "friend" is a dick. Yes 3 yo can act up, but it's her responsibility to deal with it quickly & effectively. If she can't deal with it, then she should be taking him out of the situation for everyone's sake.

Our friends DS was could be like this, he was later diagnosed with autism. No way would our friend allow others to leave a situation because of his behaviour. She was always the one to leave if he got too much.

You are being way too nice & your friend is a lazy CF who owes you an apology big time

The throwing things hasn't happened before, nor the bouncy chair incident, this is an escalation of behaviour since arriving, but the other stuff has ie putting the blanket down hard and poking baby. All stuff that has been easy to handle ie saying 'no Paul, be gentle' and moving him away if he isn't.

No, there are 4 adults here. However when the throwing began yesterday, it was just us 2 adults in the room.

OP just to say, this isn’t normal behaviour, it isnt your fault and if the mother isn’t going to take proper action then you’ve done the right thing leaving! Sorry your holiday has been ruined!

He gets enough food, love, attention, he's quite spoiled actually. I don't know what's causing it but he just isn't a very pleasant child sometimes. There are times that he can be extremely gentle and caring towards the baby but then he acts this way...

I’d have shouted something along the lines of “control your little shitbag, you ineffectual twat”, if someone repeatedly allowed their three year old to deliberately target my child.

So you’re probably doing better than me.

I'm quite shocked at posters saying this is normal behaviour for a 3yo. It's really fucking not!

Neither of mine would ever throw things at a baby or tantrum like that at another adult at 3yo. My dd was 2.5 when her brother was born, yes she was clumsy around him and a bit rough sometimes. And yes I had to watch her like a hawk but she never tried to hurt him on purpose.

The mum is one of those wet blanket, useless parents. Poor kid is just going to get worse as he gets older. Ditch the friend OP.

He probably is tired, hot and jealous but it doesn't mean his behaviour can be allowed to continue or that you have to tolerate it. The parents should be removing him from the situation when he is throwing stuff, physically taking the things out of his hand and picking him up, then distracting him.

That is definitely not normal behaviour for a three year old. I have never met a three year old who repeatedly behaves like this. His parents need to do more to stop it.

You are doing the right thing and protecting your child. I would be expecting an apology from your friend if I was you. Sorry for cutting your holiday short and sorry for her DS' behaviour.

you are a much better person than me @CbaThinkingOfAUsername , I would have lost my shit and screamed at him the first time he nearly hurt my baby