Friends child hurting my baby

[CbaThinkingOfAUsername]

We are currently on holiday in a lodge. There are 4 adults and 7 kids. One of my friends, let's call her Sarah, has two boys, 7 and 3. I have a 3 month old baby.

My friends child, the 3 year old, is, in my opinion, out of control. He has constant tantrums, if you ask him to do anything, he screams and shouts. He wanted to come to the shops with me yesterday, I had no car seat for him to come so I said to him 'I'm sorry sweetheart but I don't have a car seat for you but I'll bring you back a treat'. Well, he started pulling on and swinging on my car door handle, kicking the car, screaming the place down. I genuinely thought he was going going pull the handle off and do damage. Another time my baby was in his bouncy chair and he began grabbing it and violently bouncing it up and down. His mum told him to stop but he just defiantly looked her in the eye, maintaining eye contact while bouncing it even harder. I had to run over to physically intervene.

Anyway these are just a few examples of his behaviour to give background to his behaviour in general. The situation broke down last night. Her 3 year old boy keeps throwing things at my baby. I don't know if it's jealousy or whatever but he'll pick up hairbrushes, remote controls, just anything and lob them at him. His mum weakly says 'no, don't do that' but he continues. Over and over. I'll be holding my baby and have to turn my back to protect him yet the avalanch of things being chucked at us continues. It isn't just on holiday this has happened. Well the throwing things hasn't happened before but he has threatened to kick my baby and always does sly little things like pretending to put a blanket on him to keep him warm and actually slamming it down on him, hurting him, lying on the settee beside us 'accidentally' moving his legs but actually kicking my baby....etc.

Yesterday it came to a head. I have had to continuously say to the kid, come on 'Paul' (not his real name), come on, stop that, you're going to hurt baby, you can't do that etc etc...but he doesn't care about getting in trouble. Anyway, yesterday, his mum, 'Sarah', confronted me, saying "you're always nipping at him, he's just doing it because he is hot/bored/wanting attention etc". I said yes, that's all very well, but the fact still remains that whatever the reason is behind his behaviour, he is deliberately hurting my baby and he knows what he is doing. She got extremely defensive and it came to a bit of a head. We are OK now but I'm currently packing to go home today (we aren't meant to leave till Sunday) just so that I can protect my baby from this.

I realise that kids do behave badly at times , I realise it's normal but I don't know what level is normal? Is this normal behaviour? I don't have a 3 year old myself so I don't know. Am I being unreasonable by nipping at him to stop? Am I bring unreasonable to expect him to not act like this? As I say, his mum does say 'no, don't do that' but that does absolutely nothing to control or curb his behaviour.

Who on earth goes on an appalling holiday like this with all of these adults and kids. It sounds like hell on earth.
I went to a folk festival with my small baby when I was 21 but it was only me and him and we had a lovely time.

I cross posted with you. Thanks for clarifying. I see it so often referring to the autism spectrum and it drives me utterly insane because it's such an incorrect misconception!

I've not read full thread; just your updates OP. Your friend has absolutely no control over her 3 year old. I've raised 2 kids and neither one of them felt the need to throw objects at any of my friends babies. Her attitude towards you stinks and you have done so well to keep your cool. I'd have completely lost it if she'd said that to me. She needs some parenting lessons! Such a shame you are the one to miss out on the rest of your holiday though.

I cant belive she had the cheek to say stop nipping at hm when she cant even be bothered to control him-hope the other adults get to see how bad he is when youve gone and someone else says something -she sounds a pathetic parent

Whats her excuse going to be at nursery oh he must be tired hot wants attention oh thats ok then

Time to detach yourself from this friend. I think this situation is actually quite easy because the mum is being unreasonable. I'd feel more guilty leaving if she was at her wits end with his behaviour and kept apologising for it and trying to help the boy. This sounds like a child who has the potential to really hurt your baby and it doesn't sounds like the mum will be very apologetic for it.

This is absolutely my thoughts.

It's not her 3 year olds fault - it is HER fault that she is not teaching/co trolling her child's behaviour.

It would be interesting to k ow what the other adults think when they hear you are leaving and why...

Nope wouldn’t be having this. She needs to parent her child and the fact that she is letting you leave a holiday you have paid for due to the severity of it speaks volumes. She needs to get her finger out what’s cute or funny at 3 becomes a major issue the older and stronger they get. If he was mine I’d have taken him away from the situation and if he didn’t improve his behaviour I’d have taken HIM home to teach him a lesson.

oddoneoutalways · Today 12:53
@Curiosity101 if by:
"I guess they're all on a spectrum so some are probably more chilled than others"
If you're referring to the autism spectrum, then no. They are not all on it at all. Only autistic people are on the autism spectrum. Neurotypical individuals may share some common traits with autistic individuals as a result of them being common human being traits. This does not mean neurotypical individuals are also somewhere 'on the spectrum'.

She obviously wasn't though. She was using it in the context of "a broad spectrum", as in some kids are more reactive/aggressive than others. Autism (quite astonishingly for a MN thread about a naughty child!) hasn't been mentioned at all. The word spectrum does not exist entirely for the purposes if describing ASD and can be appropriately used in other contexts without people jumping down one's throat (I would have hoped).

We used to know a child who showed this high level of directed aggression at a very young age. He targeted his baby sister and my youngest baby. Behaviour v similar to what you describe. I put it down to jealousy of younger sibling and ineffective boundaries (mum never stopped him, would verbally remonstrate but never took action).
A couple of years later the child came to school with bruises and disclosed that father physically abused him and the mother regularly, including use of belt, and had started hurting youngest child also. They went off to refuge.
Just a possibility to bear in mind, children being abused sometimes target more vulnerable children.

Well it wasn't obvious until she clarified it actually, I wasn't the only person to question it. But she has clarified it now, so there is no need to worry about it any further.

I think the behaviour isn’t unusual for a 3 year old but the mum needs to be ON IT. I don’t blame you for leaving

Some parents are just absolutely useless. I see it all the time 'no charlie, don't kick those stones at the ducks' 'oh sweetheart, you're being a bit of a pickle aren't you' while said child is kicking the glass at the bus stop...

Fucks me off so much.

Oh god, OP, how bloody stressful,

Have your other friends stepped in at all?

It’s sounds like he’s similar to my ds who has some development delay. But mine isn’t a thrower. It is easily managed by keeping the child busy and engaged but it’s no rest for me.
She should have taken him out for a walk/scoot/ride, given him a sticker book/colouring/iPad.

I am shocked some people on here are saying that behaviour is normal. It really isn’t and a child doing that would be on a behaviour management plan at a nursery. The level of aggression towards the baby sounds worrying as well. My then 2yo was not keen on her baby sister but never did anything like throwing objects at her.

I’ve got a 3yo now. She might have a bit of a whine or cry if I say no but she absolutely understands that you do not hurt other people or throw things indoors. If she’d done that once she’d have been removed from the situation, asked to apologise and told in no uncertain terms she was not to do it ever again. I would be absolutely horrified if either of mine has ever tried to hurt a baby. Your friend sounds like she can’t control her child: she should be apologising to you.

Can't believe she had the nerve to confront you to be fair. Sounds like if it wasn't for his mom being a push over you wouldn't have to keep having a word with him in the first place. You need better friends x

@oddoneoutalways

I wasn't the only person to question it.

Actually one other person questioned it. You went on a rant assuming she had used it inappropriately. Both of you hadn't properly read the sentence in its context properly, because if you don't have an axe to grind it made perfect sense without ASD being in any way involved, and needn't have been 'questioned' at all.

Im sorry but physically protecting your child comes so far above her feelings that its hillarious she wants to get defensive and play victim.

You would be out of line if you hit her child but clearly and firmly telling them 'do not hit/throw/kick/shake my baby' is in no way out of line and if the child needs repetedly reminding because they still are its not 'nagging'.

Being board does not allow a person regardless of age to attack a baby, I have a developmentally delayed SN 3 year old who fully understands that.

Frankly I would not be friends with anyone who put my baby in danger.

"The mother is clueless and failing to deal with her child’s hideous behaviour. I don’t agree at all with others here that kicking a tiny baby and repeatedly throwing things at him is normal 3yo behaviour."

Young children do not see things how older children and adults see them. They don't see much beyond themselves really. The empathy isn't there yet. Young children largely don't do things because they are 'trained' not to do them. Some children need more and longer 'training' than others. The understanding behind it comes later.

She is bang out of order. Its not really about the kid, kids do shit, its the fact that she's not stopping him and that she even confronted you for telling her son not to hit your baby. Does she think it's OK?. My niece is 3, she would never be allowed to do that to my baby.

The fact your friend has even allowed you to go home instead of agreeing to make more effort to stop her child hurting your baby would end the friendship for me.

Luckily, it's just a friend, so unless you live together, you never need to let the 3 year old be near your baby again.

Not you. Not all three year olds. 3 yo sounds jealous, no idea why, maybe he likes you and doesn't like that you have a baby now. Anyway the mother is being a d*ck about it, so don't blame you for going home.

OP, your mate sounds like a really inadequate parent. I wouldn’t want to remain in a friendship with her after all of this. In fact, in your shoes, just before I left I’d send her a link to this thread. She needs to face up to the fact she is doing her kid no favours what so ever.

I agree with this. My dd was a difficult three year old, but neither of my dc would have deliberately hurt a tiny baby or an animal. I did once visit a friend whose four year old spent the whole time lobbing stuff like the remote at my head and didn’t get told off, I never visited again ! Toddlers do get jealous and can be rough with smaller children but the throwing of stuff is really dangerous and concerning, terrible parenting to not nip this firmly in the bud, what if he really injured a baby or another toddler ? Three is small and three year olds vary, but both mine started school at three, as did I, and all of us were quite capable of controlling ourselves enough to not throw things at babies.
I was at a park years ago when my eldest was about eighteen months old, an older boy, around four or five, came towards her and tried to kick her. I literally roared at him “Don’t you dare do that “, it was an instinctive reaction. His mother came up, told him off, apologised , explained that he’d had a very difficult day, and took him away. That is what any decent parent would do. I would be very angry with my friend that she didn’t care about the safety of my tiny baby, in your situation.

She certainly wouldn't be a friend to me anymore if I had to leave a holiday on day 2 because of her crap parenting and we certainly wouldn't be 'okay' afterwards.