That this transgender person..

[ClassSize2022]

Should not have been in the ladies changing room? Especially if naked from the waist down.

I can imagine being very frightened in this situation as a biological woman having to share a changing room with a man.

NHS transgender worker wins payout after boss asked about underwear

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e15f7c2-0779-11ed-a986-fc91b4ad48f0?shareToken=b22ada0c3a8e04d703e4eb229fb47802

transgender worker wins payout after boss asked about underwear www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e15f7c2-0779-11ed-a986-fc91b4ad48f0?shareToken=b22ada0c3a8e04d703e4eb229fb47802 Times article

I think we have got to start laughing ( or pretending to laugh, anyway) when this sort of thing happens. Being embarrassed, being scared , are the desired reactions. If all the women present started telling jokes and laughing, I feel the person concerned might be a bit….deflated.

Why is it so accepted by some posters that women were bullying the TW?🤔
Nobody saw the alleged note, the TW destroyed it, the overhead conversation didn't match with the accused voices/accents and it was clear that the TW was confused/mistaken about some of their accounts of events

Seems so strange that nobody could locate the women who said all those beastly things about the transwoman.
I mean it was quite a lengthy bitching session those two colleagues apparently had yet nobody saw them, including the transwoman, or knew who they were, yet luckily just simply overhearing it was enough evidence to secure a decent payout.
So lucky that TW was onhand to hear it all.
And to find the anonymous note in her locker too.

I do hope they find those mean women before they say uncorroborated things again about another TW for the sake of humanity etc.

The transphobic comments made outside the changing room didn’t mention either of the women having seen the TW’s penis at all. But the comments do indicate intent to stitch up the TW to get rid of her:

28 Jul 2020

Voice one: I am sick to death of this bloke with a dick pretending to be a woman, who doesn’t even dress like a girl and has facial hair, that thing may rape me and we can drive it out of the department and maybe find a suitable leper colony for it.

Voice two: I agree but we need to do something but what can we do when management are sucking up to that thing.

Voice one: We will find a way.

And there is no dispute this incident happened btw along with abusive notes left in her locker saying “get out you tranny freak” and “get out tranny”. These were reported to management.

Then 10 Jun 2021 the underwear comment happens (or did not happen depending on who you believe this was in dispute). This was basically a colleague alleging that the TW had said she was so physically hot she had removed her underwear and made a wringing gesture with her hands.

Sometime on 24 Jun 2021 Mrs Hankshaw received a report from one colleague that the TW had been seen “naked from the waist down in the changing room”. Which then led her to not tell the TW about this allegation but to ask her about wearing underwear in the changing room on 25 Jun 2021 in front of a third colleague while saying it was only a discussion relating back to the 10 Jun 2021 underwear comment.

Ive read the judgement. You obviously have not.

Tricky one. I’m inclined to agree but I also think the name-calling, nasty notes in the locker etc from the person’s colleagues demolished any higher ground they may have had. I can understand why the judgement went the way it did.

Why do women have to be nice to someone.wbos sexjally harassing them?

They shouldn't be there. Their presence, their choice to enter that room was a choice to harass those women.

The women don't owe them nice tbh

It wasn’t lengthy…I’ve posted it read it aloud and it takes 15 seconds.
And why is it so strange that when management interviewed staff that everyone denied knowing about it or saying those things? Even the most stupid of bigots isn’t going to confess to workplace bullying and transphobia.
The TW didn’t see them because she was in the private cubicle- not exposing herself.

As for the anonymous note a rogue manager collected a handwriting sample from the TW and it didn’t match the note. The TW complained about this as well because no other handwriting samples were gathered. She didn’t know that upper management had decided not to gather handwriting samples and did not know she had been asked for one by the rogue manager- who stayed quiet until it all came out in the tribunal.

The TW wasn’t sexually harassing anyone! You really need to look up the definition of harassment because its a lot more than mere presence.

A male entering a space with the sole intention of using the women as unconventional props in an identity that is only relevant to them and walking around with their pemis exposed is very much harassing someone.

Indecent exposure is a form of sexual violence.

Unconsenting props

A male being in a female changing space is harassment. It can make women scared or uncomfortable. That is the definition of harrassment
If all the other women were so uncomfortable with it, why were their feelings not taken into account. Why do the feelings of one make take precedence over the feelings of all the females who had to change there?

i have skim-read half the pdf (thanks to pp for posting it)

Frankly? the first mistake was employing someone who applied for a full-time role then when offered that role then demanded (and got) only 16 hours. That, to me, is morally (if not legally) wrong and complete bullshit.

Nobody should be made to feel uncomfortable in the workplace. Nobody. At all.
I'm curious that, for eg, the note was allowed to be considered since it had been destroyed. Am going to assume that the level of evidence required for a tribunal is far lower than that for a criminal trial for, say, rape?

What do you mean when you use the word compromise?

asked by a poster on a long post i made outlining 3 "compromises" (they were things like separate floor-to-ceiling cubicles for all changing needs)

I get it. Nobody wants to compromise. Let's fight about this issue for ever then.

I have no idea why my post was deleted, I said nothing inflammatory and made no direct accusations. Someone is hot on the report button on this thread, I see.

I’m 34 years old and considered very liberal. I support trans people having the right to live their lives free of fear and in ways that make them happy.

im also female. I have spent the last 22 years being low level harassed by men, raped by men, groped and catcalled and followed by men, abused by a male partner, and I am not in the minority. The vast majority of my female friends have experienced similar.

im scared of men. I do not seek out male friendships. I recently started a new job and have real trouble engaging with the two males on the team, because I live my life on alert thanks to learned experiences.

if I knew there were penises in what are supposed to be my safe spaces, I wouldn’t use them. It’s not fair and it isn’t safe. Male bodies attack female bodies and Trans people. Third spaces are a necessity I’m afraid - to protect females and trans people against men, because it is men that are the problem.

Having read the judgement it is clear that the accounts, statements and complaints made by the TW were in the tribunals words inconsistent, not evidenced and the majority not upheld.

The behaviour by the TW throughout their very short employment ( the TW attended work less than half of their employment time) appears to have caused upset and distress for many other employees not to mention the time taken by supervisors, managers and HR to investigate their complaints and poor attendance.
Given the upheld claims that the TW had repeatedly told others of their intention to sue the trust shows they clearly had an agenda from the outset.

There also appears to be some indication that the TW has sued one or more companies in a similar fashion. It appears the UK has its own version of Yaniv!

The transphobic staff should have been fired. There’s no place for that sort of thing.

The “pdf” link worked. Thanks! Really interesting reading. It’s a shame that the trust’s decision to allow the claimant to use the female changing room was not up for debate.

Here’s a screenshot of the part where the claimant won. P57 of the tribunal pdf.

The transphobic staff should have been fired. There’s no place for that sort of thing.

Sweet who were the transphobic staff?

No that is not the definition of harrassment. The TWs presence in and use of the womens changing room was sanctioned by NHS management. So the TW presence in and use of the changing room was reasonable under the circumstances as she had full permission and support.

“conduct which may require a person to be given legal protection in terms of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. For these purposes harassment is not defined but it includes causing the person alarm or distress. For the courts to act under this legislation the harassment was caused by a course of conduct. This is defined in the Act as conduct on more than one occasion. It need not be the same conduct on each occasion. There are defences such as that the conduct was reasonable in the circumstances. It is not open to plead as a defence that it was not intended by the alleged offender that alarm be caused. It is enough if his or her conduct would cause harassment, if a reasonable person, in possession of the same information, would think that the course of conduct would have that effect. Similar rules apply in Scotland.”

No that is not the definition of harrassment. The TWs presence in and use of the womens changing room was sanctioned by NHS management. So the TW presence in and use of the changing room was reasonable under the circumstances as she had full permission and support

This isn't okay, though. Women should be able to go to work and use the appropriate changing facilities without having to see a penis. If management facilitated otherwise then something has gone very wrong.

Having read the judgement it is clear that the accounts, statements and complaints made by the TW were in the tribunals words inconsistent, not evidenced and the majority not upheld.

Actually most 15 out of 18 allegations were deemed to have happened (evidenced) but they were not upheld as the tribunal determined they did not happen due to gender reassignment discrimination.

I agree on the without seeing a penis, but again there is no evidence anyone saw the TW’s penis.

But surely a make entering a female space would know that they might me causing distress and discomfort to other members of staff. Otherwise all males would be using that facility and it would be labelled as mixed sex? Why did this male feel it was appropriate to enter the female changing rooms? I totally hold the hospital responsible as well as the male involved. They should have used SSE and provided somewhere else for the male to change

No, there's no place for the constant and unrelenting erasure of Women's spaces, their rights, their language and their ability to speak up without being brandished a transphobe, actually!

Be kind, be accepting, be quiet, be gracious... be oh so stereotypically sweet and feminine whilst men inch forward taking over the things we as biological women have fought for. Great!

I'm so over it all, honestly. Love and let live, be who you want to be... but I draw the line at being FORCED to play pretend in someone else's fantasy life. NO.