That this transgender person..

[ClassSize2022]

Should not have been in the ladies changing room? Especially if naked from the waist down.

I can imagine being very frightened in this situation as a biological woman having to share a changing room with a man.

NHS transgender worker wins payout after boss asked about underwear

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e15f7c2-0779-11ed-a986-fc91b4ad48f0?shareToken=b22ada0c3a8e04d703e4eb229fb47802

transgender worker wins payout after boss asked about underwear www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e15f7c2-0779-11ed-a986-fc91b4ad48f0?shareToken=b22ada0c3a8e04d703e4eb229fb47802 Times article

We have given you stats. From the ministry of justice.

You just tell us how terribly suicidal it makes males who aren't allowed to get their penises out in front of women.

Which bit are you finding so hard to understand? Males are a threat to females. There has been statistics gathered on this for a fair old while now. In fact, they are such a threat that the only protected characteristic that isn't deemed a hate crime is violence against women and girls, because the police know that they would never get anothing else done, due to it being endemic.

Didimum
Nasty inflammatory post. The transphobic hole in MN is vile

can you explain why it’s transphobic for women not to want half naked males in their changing rooms? I don’t want ANY half naked males in my changing rooms, trans or otherwise, so how is it transphobic specifically and not say, homophobic?

Stonewall is reaping the consequences of "No Debate " because people have realised the the debate is actually about women's rights not "the existence of trans people " or some such hyperbolic nonsense.

Some excellent analysis and posts on the thread about this in FWR

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4593138-transwoman-wins-employment-discrimination-case-against-nhs-for-being-treated-differently-from-women-in-changing-room

Stonewall have done a good job of reducing trans acceptance as shown in that new yougov survey. If only they'd used all that cash they have to argue for third spaces and an actual workable solution that balanced the rights of everyone. Instead we have ludicrous situations like the one presented here which clearly isn't working for either the transwoman or the women employees.

Just read the judgement.

Christ on a bike, has there ever been a more self-obsessed person in the world than the claimant?? I don't think so.

Indeed @Rainbowshit . I think this might wake SW up to the fact you can bully people into saying the right words, but what they think is a different matter, and now people are now refusing to even say the right words. I think that’s why there was such a push at the start of all this to get everything pushed through as soon as possible, before people started to realise what was happening, and the screeches of male rage when women put the brakes on.

It's all gone quiet from those asking for evidence .

Maybe @HackneyMum1 read the tread and saw the website and is too embarrassed to say she was wrong. And didn’t @Discovereads battery die so conveniently had to log off….

Anyone who doesn't understand the impossibility of changing their sex shouldn't be relied on to be able to distinguish fantasy from reality in any other area of their life.

Like that bloke who had tattoos & surgery including chopping off fingers so he looks like he has claws & adding lumps on his head to look like an alien, who is now complaining employers treat him differently & don't really want to employ him.

People are free to decide they want to present any way they want.
Other people don't have to pretend it is normal or that they find it acceptable.

It's really legitimised flashing isn't it, forcing women or girls to look at dicks for the sexual gratification of the man. Now it's easier than ever, no need to hide behind a tree, just walk around in comfort flashing multiple times. What absolutely pathetic sad bastards.

It's a fucking sad judgement for any women, never mind all of the vulnerable under age young girls and teens who have now essentially been told their feelings and wishes amount to no more than a pile of shit.

And that they have to accept the inherent danger in this.

This is the world they are being forced to grow up in.

From the judgement it does not show if there was any investigation by the trust in regards to the complaint that the TW was naked from the waist down in the female changing room.
If it was not investigated by the trust they have failed women.
The only complaint upheld was that the questions to the TW relating to their underwear was because they were a TW and a woman would not have been asked the same questions. Which they obviously wouldn't as women do not have a penis.

’It's really legitimised flashing isn't it’

For some, yes. I think that the vast majority of trans women go a changing room to get changed. They’re probably just as conscious about covering up as everyone else in there. It’s transphobic to assume that all trans women are looking to deliberately expose their genitals to other people. It’s crazy to assume that no trans woman could/would ever do that. As a group, there is a % of those assigned male at birth who seek gratification from exposing themselves to women. Some of those are going to be trans. When you don’t accept that you end up with a situation where you can’t complain about someone deliberately and repeatedly exposing their genitalia to others in a women’s changing room.

No one is assigned sex at birth.

Unless of course @sorefrog is meaning those with DSD who are the only people this terminology could ever relate to. Why they think that a percentage of people with DSD would go around flashing their genitals, but no men would is what’s confusing me

The abuse of the trans person, which the trust accept happened, was repellent and totally inexcusable.

Agreed.

At no point did anyone say a penis was sighted/flashed/flaunted/waved.

Irrelevant. The person is male and should not have been in the female changing room. The state of dress of their fucking penis is neither here nor there.

I was trying (and apparently failing) to use the right terminology for trans women.

Why not just say transwomen? @Sorefrog we All know they are male.

I try to stick to a middle ground of TW are TW - which pisses everyone off.

That is my stance. TW do not belong in female spaces because they are male, but I will be polite and not refer to them as that word used to describe adult males. If TW are scared about using male spaces, they can campaign for third spaces. It is not women’s problem to solve.
Imagine if SW had used all the money they have spent trying to convince us all TWAW into actually providing third spaces, research into trans health and finding ways to improve the lives of trans people. We would not be in this mess.

I used to be in the middle ground too.

Not anymore.

The last couple of years has been a spectacular own goal for the TRAs.

Men winning women of the year / author of the year / etc awards
Opportunites stolen from women in sports
People harassed out of their jobs
Advocating the medicalisation of children
Denying actual biology (please don't pretend this doesn't happen - it does)
Children being brainwashed into the gender ideology in schools by those flying the Stonewall flag
Women forced to share prisons, wards, refuges, changing rooms and toilets with males

I could go on and on.

The middle ground is why we got here.

Men are not, and never will be, women.
In NO capacity, under NO circumstances.

That middle ground leads to women and children having to call their male attackers she in court. This has actually happened in at least two cases I can think of. One of child abuse. One of GmbH.
No thank you. Men are not women.

For me, middle ground is calling someone by the pronouns they want to be polite. I'll concede nothing more than that.

Not in court, of course. They can fuck off