That this transgender person..

[ClassSize2022]

Should not have been in the ladies changing room? Especially if naked from the waist down.

I can imagine being very frightened in this situation as a biological woman having to share a changing room with a man.

NHS transgender worker wins payout after boss asked about underwear

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e15f7c2-0779-11ed-a986-fc91b4ad48f0?shareToken=b22ada0c3a8e04d703e4eb229fb47802

transgender worker wins payout after boss asked about underwear www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e15f7c2-0779-11ed-a986-fc91b4ad48f0?shareToken=b22ada0c3a8e04d703e4eb229fb47802 Times article

The Tribunal said these incidents happened. Would you be so sure that nothing happened if it were a black woman reporting racist comments? Check your bias.

Oooh and now we get to the racist bit… it’s almost like clockwork 😀😂😂😂

Are there are any stats on the frequency of attacks on women by transwomen in female changing rooms / women-only spaces? I'm just wondering how often it actually happens? Genuinely interested in what it is that seems to result in such "fear" amongst gender critical mumsnetters.

There doesn't need to be any "fear", it's a simple matter of respecting women's privacy and dignity. Women have rights too. But a mixed sex space will always pose more risk to women than a single sex one, because males as a class pose far more risk to women. It has nothing to do with being transgender.

Imagine how difficult it must be to be trans and for people to equate your existence with sex offenders.

I don't think anyone is actually doing that however. But the fact is that dismantling sex specific spaces makes women more vulnerable to male bodied offenders who want access. That's just the unfortunate truth of it.

I'm just wondering how often it actually happens? Genuinely interested in what it is that seems to result in such "fear" amongst gender critical mumsnetters.

I have no idea, but the issue encompasses much more than that. I know a woman who was violently raped and now often struggles in the presence of men she doesn't know. Coming across a male body in a female changing room would massively trigger her and I don't know why people don't think her safety and security isn't important here.

All the people involved in the Tribunal. I know that the perpetrators were never identified. Why would you even think I was referring to them?

Ah yes the "black women are like transwomen " gambit. Can you even hear yourself?

As I said. You just need to let them speak. They show themselves up. Every time.

No, the claimant only agreed that they might be the people listed in a note that Mrs Cooke wrote as to who Mrs Cooke saw in the changing room or near it at the time of the incident. The Claimant never volunteered any names of her own accord.

I don't equate transwomen with sex offenders. In the same way I don't equate Catholic priests, Tv presenters, social workers, sports coaches and other people who might have access to women and children in vulnerable situations as sex offenders. But I don't trust anyone who has such access based on them telling me they are "safe" to be around.

Are there are any stats on the frequency of attacks on women by transwomen in female changing rooms / women-only spaces? I'm just wondering how often it actually happens?

Any stats are unreliable due to police recording rapes by gender identity and not natal sex.

But 'female' sex crimes have skyrocketed since this has become common practice.

Make of that what you will.

Oh and once is too much.

@Discovereads you're just embarrassing yourself now love.

100% this.

By 28 July she’d been the victim of two transphobic incidents and was put on excused absences by management as the investigations were done

Not true. The claiment REQUESTED compassionate leave for the 5th 6th 7th August which was granted and the TW returned to work Monday the 10th. The conclusion of the investigation meeting had already been held on the 4th August. So she was not granted time off while investigations were done.

I'm interested in their comments though. I really want to understand but its beyond me .

If the bullying took place that is absolutely of order.

But the male exposing his penis in the female changing room, by removing his pants, to wring them out, because he was hot, and they were wet .... seriously who buys this ? 😂

I’m pretty sure that NHS Trusts don’t segregate changing rooms by worker category. There would have been all professions in there- nurses, cleaners, doctors, caterers. The TW was on the catering staff and wouldn’t have met many people outside her immediate colleagues. How would she know who everyone noncatering is well enough to identify by voice alone when she’d worked less than 10 shifts there before she overhead the conversation?

All the people involved in the Tribunal. I know that the perpetrators were never identified. Why would you even think I was referring to them?

Your statement was false on the face of it. You believe it happened, and so they couldn't have "cross examined everyone involved", could they, as no one was ever identified, but the perpetrators, if they exist, would have been involved. Your comment lends more legitimacy and weight to the finding than hearsay self-reported "overheard" comments deserve.

I'll be scrolling the rest of your posts, so won't be engaging with you on this thread again, as I'm not interested in participating in derailing it with this.

@Ereshkigalangcleg youll miss all the fun stuff though. We’ve already had the racist card, I’m just waiting for the ‘you’re all big meanies so I’m going’ and I’ve got a full bingo card

I’m pretty sure that NHS Trusts don’t segregate changing rooms by worker category. There would have been all professions in there- nurses, cleaners, doctors, caterers. The TW was on the catering staff and wouldn’t have met many people outside her immediate colleagues. How would she know who everyone noncatering is well enough to identify by voice alone when she’d worked less than 10 shifts there before she overhead the conversation?

Given these womens comments it would be safe to say they worked with the TW and also the fact that the other staff member provided 4 names of women who were in there and that the TW was 85% sure it was her colleague Mrs M she heard it shows that these women worked alongside the TW.

Frankly I don't believe that convo happened. There are so many holes and inconsistencies in the TW statements I believe they made it and the notes up.

I can live without it, having seen it play out on other threads with various posters.

"Are there are any stats on the frequency of attacks on women by transwomen in female changing rooms / women-only spaces? I'm just wondering how often it actually happens? Genuinely interested in what it is that seems to result in such "fear" amongst gender critical mumsnetters."

Who gives a fuck what the "stats" are?
Women say NO.
They don't want MEN in the female changing rooms, toilets, any women only space.

Would you be perfectly happy to let your daughter change in a changing room or toilet with a fully intact male?
If it's only happened once or twice, is that acceptable to you? Are those incidents just the collateral damage that we have to accept so that some men can feel validated as women?

Even if there were NO reported attacks, the fact that women say NO and are uncomfortable with it, should be enough.

Yes it’s true, and why am I the only one quoting the judgement as proof and yet you lot just write a version of events down with no proof?

”Mrs Westwood discussed the Claimant’s email with Mr Swallow and Mrs Wilson. She emailed the Claimant saying that she would continue to support her in any way she could and suggesting that she take the following day off as authorised absence.”

”Mrs Westwood emailed the Claimant on 30 July 2020 to confirm that her day’s absence was a personal day to support her, and would not be counted as sickness absence.”

“The Claimant met Mrs Westwood on 4 August 2020. Ms Platts, HR advisor, attended and Ms Barson (supervisor) supported the Claimant. To begin with the Claimant was shaking and emotional. She revealed that she had self-harmed. However, she was able to take part in the meeting….However, with encouragement from Ms Barson too, the Claimant agreed to try four shifts that week. Mrs Westwood was to meet the Claimant at the end of the week to find out how things had gone. They would then consider whether the Claimant wanted to move to a 20 hour per week post temporarily or whether she wanted to continue with the phased approach with a view to reaching full-time hours. Mrs Westwood would refer the Claimant to OH and a further meeting would then be arranged. The Claimant spoke about ending her employment, but Mrs Westwood encouraged her not to, and to take “small steps” to reach her goal of returning to and staying in work.”

Right. And what percentage of transwomen (if they have a penis) engage in that sort of behaviour? Any stats on that or evidence that it constitutes a reasonable threat to other women?

98% of sex offences are committed by men. No evidence to show that gender identity makes a jot of difference to male pattern behaviour

@Discovereads because we like watching you try to twist things to meet your narrative.

Why so concerned with stats?
Why is it not enough that women say NO?

Don't they have that right anymore?

ANY PENIS in a female only space constitutes a "reasonable threat" given that 98% of all sexual assaults are committed by males.