That this transgender person..

[ClassSize2022]

Should not have been in the ladies changing room? Especially if naked from the waist down.

I can imagine being very frightened in this situation as a biological woman having to share a changing room with a man.

NHS transgender worker wins payout after boss asked about underwear

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e15f7c2-0779-11ed-a986-fc91b4ad48f0?shareToken=b22ada0c3a8e04d703e4eb229fb47802

transgender worker wins payout after boss asked about underwear www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e15f7c2-0779-11ed-a986-fc91b4ad48f0?shareToken=b22ada0c3a8e04d703e4eb229fb47802 Times article

A full year before this allegation, the TW overheard two colleagues plotting to stitch her up.

Well, that's what they say. No evidence from anywhere else, though. Just from the claimant.

Can’t believe I have to repeat myself. You’re in a changing room. Someone is on the toilet. You hear piss or shit hitting the pan….is that person naked from the waist down or fully clothed and teleporting their shit/piss into the toilet? In the same changing room someone comes out of the shower wrapped in a towel and goes into a cubicle. The towel is then flung over the top of the door…is the person behind the door naked or not?

Even then given the comments made by the TW about them taking off their underwear and the comment made that a staff member had seen them naked from the waist down it could be argued that the questions were relevant.

It is extremely relevant and it should have been much better argued. No Ben Cooper here!

Again, the Tribunal found it to have happened. I’m going by what the Tribunal decided as they interviewed and cross examined all the people involved so are really best placed to make a judgement on veracity.

That explains why this person was allowed to access womens changing rooms, and why women weren’t consulted ,but told this would happen regardless.

And then "educated".

"Can’t believe I have to repeat myself. You’re in a changing room. Someone is on the toilet. You hear piss or shit hitting the pan….is that person naked from the waist down or fully clothed and teleporting their shit/piss into the toilet? In the same changing room someone comes out of the shower wrapped in a towel and goes into a cubicle. The towel is then flung over the top of the door…is the person behind the door naked or not?"

But the women are NOT talking about those situations! Don't be obtuse.
They are talking about being naked from the waist down in the COMMON area of the changing room. In view of other people.
Against their wishes.
Against the "agreement" that was in place.

Can’t believe I have to repeat myself. You’re in a changing room. Someone is on the toilet. You hear piss or shit hitting the pan….is that person naked from the waist down or fully clothed and teleporting their shit/piss into the toilet? In the same changing room someone comes out of the shower wrapped in a towel and goes into a cubicle. The towel is then flung over the top of the door…is the person behind the door naked or not?

😂

So the complaints were about someone who they couldn't see being naked from the waist down? If that wasn't the complaint, and I'm sure it wasn't, then you are tying yourself in knots trying to excuse this. Why?

Again, the Tribunal found it to have happened. I’m going by what the Tribunal decided as they interviewed and cross examined all the people involved so are really best placed to make a judgement on veracity.

I know what the tribunal found. You can have your opinion, and I'll have mine.

Really, you’re going to use the “I never look at that region, I always avert my eyes” argument regarding a clothed male but then say with assurance that you’d be definitely ogling an unclothed males genital region?

I don’t agree a penis was definitely seen. “Naked from waist down in the changing room” is too vague. And if a penis had been seen why didn’t the woman just say she was flashed?

You’re correct. The TW was bullied from first day of work until they went off sick due to the stress on 13 August 2020.

No the TW started work on the 13th July. The conversation and 1st note was the 28th July.
It appears the work related stress was not due to the note/conversation but due to the trust encouraging the TW to commit to more hours as previously agreed by the TW as shown by the meetings held to discuss it at the beginning of August.

She also said that the changing room incident was not the only incident she suffered at work

Which the TW provided no description or evidence of despite quickly informing management of the previous incidents.

Can’t believe I have to repeat myself. You’re in a changing room. Someone is on the toilet. You hear piss or shit hitting the pan….is that person naked from the waist down or fully clothed and teleporting their shit/piss into the toilet? In the same changing room someone comes out of the shower wrapped in a towel and goes into a cubicle. The towel is then flung over the top of the door…is the person behind the door naked or not? this has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever read on mumsnet. Absolutely cringing for you that you're wrapping yourself up in knots like that.

And no they didn't "cross examine all the people involved" because they never found the supposed people who did it.

It's just astonishing isn't it? TRAs aren't known for their logic though.

Utterly disingenuous. I can’t believe you’ve made that case in a serious way.

You know that was not what was alleged.

Absolutely cringing for you that you're wrapping yourself up in knots like that.

How shall I say it, this is not this poster's first rodeo.

To be honest, I’m loving @Discovereads attempts to prove that a woman complaining about seeing a penis in an area where no penises should be didn’t actually see the penis, but the person with the penis was naked by using the toilet or shower. It’s actually getting funnier with each post.

The facts are it was a conversation nobody else heard and the women were not identified. It was 1 note nobody saw and another which again could not be used to identify the writer.
There was no campaign to force the TW out and the fact is the TW chose to resign not because of those 3 incidents but because they were rightly been taken through the absence management procedure.

YY.

Completely agree. Absolutely vile. Views like this are the reason that suicide rates are so high amongst trans people. Imagine how difficult it must be to be trans and for people to equate your existence with sex offenders.

Are there are any stats on the frequency of attacks on women by transwomen in female changing rooms / women-only spaces? I'm just wondering how often it actually happens? Genuinely interested in what it is that seems to result in such "fear" amongst gender critical mumsnetters.

@Conflictedunicorn I'm also finding it highly amusing. You just have to let them talk don't you? It's very revealing.

No she didn’t break any agreement.

The TW is disabled and was returning to FT work:
”The Respondents admit that the Claimant was disabled at all relevant times because of both of those matters and they admit that they knew she was at all relevant times.”

At the Occupational Health review it was noted
”She had not worked for several years and was also experiencing some anxieties about returning to the workforce and her hours of work.The OH advisor recommended meeting the Claimant before she started work to discuss any support that was required.”

“At their meeting on 12 May 2020, the Claimant asked if she could start work 15 hours per week and gradually build up her hours to full-time, because she had not been in employment for so long. Mr Swallow agreed to look into it, and it was subsequently agreed that she could build up to full-time over four weeks.”

She started work on 13 July. By 28 July she’d been the victim of two transphobic incidents and was put on excused absences by management as the investigations were done until going off sick from the stress on 13 Aug. She never had the chance to phase in to full time work at that location.

Why is the TW claim that a conversation happened that nobody else heard and there is no evidence of be believed but a womans claim that she saw a penis in the female changing room isn't despite the fact that we know its likely there was a penis in the female changing room given the fact that the TW still has theirs and used said female changing room?

I mean the TW claimed to not have recieved an apology for the dummy comment then produced a secret recording of a meeting where the person who made the dummy comment can be heard clearly apologising again.....

Imagine how difficult it must be to be trans and for people to equate your existence with sex offenders

Hmm it's not the existence that's the issue it's the indecent exposure. How about don't flash your fucking cock at unwilling females and then there will be nothing to report.

Oh yes. I’m just waiting for discoverreads, who seems to have er departed. to pop off and the next TRA join in. I think they tag team when they get tired.

The facts are it was a conversation nobody else heard and the women were not identified. It was 1 note nobody saw and another which again could not be used to identify the writer.
There was no campaign to force the TW out and the fact is the TW chose to resign not because of those 3 incidents but because they were rightly been taken through the absence management procedure.

I really, really hope that the NHS appeal.

Do you agree @Discovereads that if a penis is on display in a female changing room than that is unacceptable?